Lapua Brass

J

Julian

Guest
I need to buy some new brass for my .308. I have been using Winchester brass.

What is the difference between Winchester and Lapua brass? The Lapua is more expensive, so what am I paying for? What is different about the Lapua compared to Winchester?

Thanks,

Julian
 
Julian,

Lapua is more uniform for weight and neck thickness (runout) than Winchester and is also a little heavier which results in a slight reduction in capacity. Lapua is also fatter at the base (0.469 vs 0.464-5) than Winchester. Some competitors choose Winchester for its greater capacity to gain a little potential velocity. The big news is that Lapua now offers 308 brass with small rifle primer pockets and flash holes in addition to the LR convention. This last may be of interest to you. The SR primer option is at the request the US Palma Team who believe it offers competitive advantage. Both Lapua and Winchester have hard case heads and long primer pocket life. Plus as you pointed out, twice the cases for the same bucks with Winchester.

Greg
 
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Lapua vs Winchester

Most of us who are involved with extreme accuracy shooting see Brass divided into two categories. Lapua, and everybody else.

Just my opinion, but I can't see any feature that any other brand would have that would justify choosing it over Lapua. It is that good...........jackie
 
308 Lapua brass

is usually as cheap for Cabelas as anywhere else. Way until they have free shipping on any order over $75 and then order two 100 boxes (I got mine for $53/box on sale). I much prefer it over Winny brass. My particular Rem700 308 shoots better groups when I neck size only. I can get 4-5 firings out of the Lapua without a shoulder bump. Typically only 2-3 on the Winny brass.

I can't wait to try the new SR primer stuff when it hits the streets.

Luck, Tim
 
Winchester Brass

I have been using Winchester brass for a number of years and have always found it uniform in size. I researched Lapua brass recently, but could not find anything definitive as to why it would be better.

Small primer, big primer, or in between primer, I don't see how it would make that much of a difference in prone shooting. There are so many variables in shooting prone; gaining another 1/10 of an inch with a small primer is not going to make a difference in my opinion.

Julian
 
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sounds like you talked yourself into this belief

I shoot competition and assure you, no one who is competetive skimps on QUALITY, and that is because if you do you have no chance of competing!! (winning) check the equipment list of the top competitors, ????? LAPUA!! Now you think what you want.
 
I like Lapua alot and use it myself but if you look you'll find that many of the winning long range shooters also use Winchester 308 brass.

Here is a good article about John Whidden, his rifles, and his loads.

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek059.html.

As you can see he uses Winchester Brass.
He also won the long range competition at Camp Perry in 2007 & 2008 So I guess he knows a bit about it. Winchester Brass has a larger case capacity which can be important when shooting out to 1000 yards with a 308.
 
Long timer reloader (target shooting only not competition) used Winchester brass for years recently purchased Lapua Brass (223) I immediately seen a 9-10% decrease in group size, Savage guns out of the box no mods. For me I would never go back as long as Lapua produces the brass.
 
WILDCATER said:
I shoot competition and assure you, no one who is competetive skimps on QUALITY, and that is because if you do you have no chance of competing!! (winning) check the equipment list of the top competitors, ????? LAPUA!! Now you think what you want.
Click to expand...

You are absolutely correct in your statement, WILDCATTER. Shooting is a tech game also, where innovation and invention can create incredible scores. If you shoot for accuracy, you are forced to at least update your equipment periodically. It is part of the sport, and as you know the choices and debate are endless.

Julian
 
Lapua

I'm not a competitive shooter but I do like accurate rounds. With Wilson seating dies and Lapua brass I get 0 runout at the neck in my 6mm BR.
I've also shot some .22-250 Nosler brass and it comes in a real close second.
 
Interesting that LAPUA is offering the small primer in the 308 brass. Back when, I made several of my wildcats from the old Remington UBR brass (small pocket). I was told by more than one shooter, in no uncertain words, that the small primer would not light the powder charge sufficiently. Being stubborn I went ahead on my own. It worked then and apparantly LAPUA thinks it will work now.

OK, let's hear from all those guys who told me years ago that "it'll never work.":rolleyes::cool:

Ray
 
Ray: Bet you'll never hear from them. The "know-it-alls" have a talent for disappearing when confronted with evidence of the truth.
 
I found this explanation of Lapua brass on 6mmbr. According to the author Lapua brass is more consistent in casewall thickness, and gives you more consistent cartridge weight and neck thickness. Winchester and Remington brass is also mentioned.

jwm


http://www.6mmbr.com/308win.html

Preferred Brass

For a 6BR, there is one clear choice in brass--Lapua, with Norma the only real second choice. For the .308 Winchester, choice of brass is not so simple. Most of the .308 Win precision shooters we've interviewed do prefer Lapua brass, but others are very happy with Norma, Winchester, Hornady Match and even Remington. Black Hills uses Winchester-made brass for its match ammo, which is capable of .5 MOA or better in many rifles. The main advantage of Lapua brass is consistency and quality. Case-wall thickness is very uniform and most lots have shown less variation in weight than other headstamps. But Winchester brass performs very well in the .308. And, at $24/100, Winchester costs 40% less than Lapua brass. Even if you can potentially get more loadings out of a Lapua case, Winchester brass offers more bang for the buck. You'll find a lot of once-fired Federal Gold Medal Match brass available. While it tends to shoot accurately, we've found GMM brass is relatively soft compared to Lapua or Winchester, so the primer pockets tend to loosen up after just three or four reloadings.

In addition to commercial brass, many .308 Win shooters reload boxer-primed military cases such as Lake City, IMI, and Hirtenberger. The Lake City Match brass is pretty good. Some lots have been excellent. The standard Lake City fodder is inferior to Winchester. IMI brass has a reputation for being strong, but we advise you only to purchase it new. Some used lots of IMI brass from Israel have been defective. If you are looking for ultimate accuracy, IMI will probably disappoint you, though it's good for gas guns that are tough on cases.
 
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Small primer, big primer, or in between primer, I don't see how it would make that much of a difference in prone shooting. There are so many variables in shooting prone; gaining another 1/10 of an inch with a small primer is not going to make a difference in my opinion.
Click to expand...


IIRC the Palma Long Range Team are the one's who requested Lapua to make small primer .308 brass... ;)
 
Julian said:
Small primer, big primer, or in between primer, I don't see how it would make that much of a difference in prone shooting. There are so many variables in shooting prone; gaining another 1/10 of an inch with a small primer is not going to make a difference in my opinion.Julian
Click to expand...

I've never lost a match by 1/10 of an inch, so your right, it doesn't matter.:rolleyes: It sez here.:cool:

Ray
 
I give up guys, and give me a minute to pull the arrows out of my back. I need to clarify my primer statement a bit.

I personally believe, position, hold, breathing technique, trigger pull, and follow up are worth 1 M.O.A. in any competition. How fast or how heavy the bullet is becomes irrelevant with poor shooting technique.

My point is we become distracted with things like bullet caliber or weight, and forget to develope the basics of the sport. I have spent a lot of time bench shooting to develope loads. looking back now, I think the time would have been better spent prone shooting instead, and not worrying about bullets and loads.


julian
 
julian

My comments were not meant as arrows in your back and I don't think anyone else's were either. Mine were more tongue in cheek than anything.

Most of us here have pretty well nailed down the fundamentals like position, hold, breathing technique, trigger pull, and follow up. That doesn't leave much. I've been beaten by 1/10 of an inch and even 1/1000 of an inch on too many occasions. I'll gladly do whatever I can to get such an edge on the other guy. If it means LAPUA brass that's what I'll use. OTOH, if it means Remchester brass, I'll use that. I'm fickle and have no loyalty to any one brand. I think most everyone else on this here Forum is likewise.

Ray
 
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This gets exactly to my point. I think too many people become fixated on things of lesser importance. In long range shooting with a 308 everything else must be equal before the brass is important. At 1000 yards lesser quality that is acceptable with a higher case capacity may be more important. Worrying about the perfect brass on a 1 MOA 10 ring at 1000yards with variable winds instead of perfecting your shooting technique is foolhardy. This is not short range benchrest. All things else being equal the new small primer 308 brass makes sense because it narrows the extreme spread in velocity. At 100 yards that is A LOT less important than at 1000yards. Conversely, spending a bunch of time and money on perfect brass to shoot at a 2-3 MOA 10 ring on an across the course target is stupid. You would be FAR better serve to use adequate brass and get out and shoot.
 
I agree J.C.

This winter, I have been shooting prone twice a week in an indoor 50 foot range, where I have learned lot about position, breathing and follow up. There is a lot more to the sport than ammunition. About 95% of your accuracy happens before you pull the trigger.

I read in an article that an olympic shooter may spend a entire day on one muscle in one leg to deveope the perfect hold. These shooters are totally commited to the sport, and practice the same basic apsects of position, hold, and breathing every day. They don't spend anytime reloading. These athetes are consumate marksmen, and start there day practicing the same basic techniques.

I have been re-thinking my whole approach to prone shooting lately, because of my twice a week practice sessions. I am finding out little details of gripping the forearm too tight strings my shots vertically, and turning my right foot out another 45 degrees stops the scope crosshairs from wobbling while on target. It's all small stuff, but it all makes a difference in your shot, and as you pull all these small details together your position improves and so does your accuracy and precision.

My plan is to stay with what I am shooting till I know I have wrung every bit of accuracy out of it, and to keep practicing the basics of position, hold, and trigger control. I don't want to be distracted with the next hot caliber, bullet or primer.



Julian
 
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JCCummings made a real interesting point in his post about being distracted with a lot of unimportant stuff. How many new people get discouraged on shooting forums, because they don't think their equipment is not good enough, or they bewildered by all the chatter on BC's, velocites, etc?

How many "Newbie" posts does this site get where an individual wants to shoot F-Class, and they are immediately talking about getting a new gun, a barrel or Night Force scope before they start? They are talking about investing $1000 before they even know if they like it.

The next kind of post you see is someone talking about buying a BAT action, Kreiger barrel, and Jewell trigger, followed by a second post asking if he can drill and bore a torsion bar from a 63 Dodge into a barrel to save some money. It doesn't make sense.

Guys aplogize on line because all they can afford is a Tasco scope, or they are going to shoot F-Class when they have saved enough money for a $1200 scope. If the best you can afford is a Tasco scope, then buy a Tasco to start. Better scopes and equipment will come with time and experience. For the guy saving for the $1200 scope, buy a Tasco. If you can't really afford a $1200 scope, then don't do it. It most likely won't make you a better marksman anyways.

Gentleman, I don't have to tell you we are in the Second Great Depression. Many of you who are reading this post are worried about your job (if you have one) or your 401K. Time have changed, most people do not have the discretional cash to throw at their rifles anymore.

We are all going to have to learn to get along with what we have, and get realistic on what people can afford to do.

A "Newbie" is given better serviced if queried about what ear protection he is is using, shooting glass, and is his rifle sighted to start than worrying about 1 in 10 twist barrel VS. a 1 in 12.

Julian
 
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