IR5050 Progress report

tommyt654 said:
"Unless it is an event such as the one described above, there is no point in it, from my experience. The shooting sports are not for folks on a budget"

I take offense to anyone with that way of thinking. Since when does/has the shooting sport become limited to only those whose pocket can afford it. I truly hope that comment was in jest. I for one while relatively new to the sport (tho I did compete many yrs ago) have to wonder why it has gotten so overly expensive to compete. You have pretty much taken any real shooting skill's out of the game and mechanized it to the point that one has to have the funds to compete more so that actual shooting skills. Really,just how hard is it to squeeze off a round when all you have is the ability to mechanically do everything else to direct your rifle to a POI ,other than judge the wind. If you really want to get back to skillful shooting then perhaps remove all mechanical aspects of the game other than the wind flags and scope and see how well you fare against others.(perhaps the reason it got that expensive in the 1st place was to dissuade better shooters anyways) That exact above statement and mindset is exactly why the sport will not continue to draw in new shooters as the older fade out. A factory class is a perfect example of how to introduce and keep shooters of all skill sets and incomes in the game. It's not like yachting or polo for gods sake it's the sport not of "kings and queens" but of the common man with adequate skills acquired thru yrs of experience,or at least it was!!!!

Just my 2 cents on that subject
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This post is incorrect in its assumptions on virtually every level. First, your opinion of what it takes,with even the best equipment, is baseless. If you think its that easy, come on out. How can you render any statement on results and or equment with no experience? Based on what?
Second, any top level results, whether it be shooting, racing, golf, hell, I don't care what it is, will be dependent on not only somebody's level of talent and commitment, but top flight equipment. Like it or not, that equipment requires both investment and top flight ammunition and unfortunately, that requires expenditure. Dumbing down the whole thing does not do much. Lots of people forget we had factory class availability and they didn't come, they didn't shoot, and the few that did, didn't really enjoy shooting mediocre scores compared to what purpose built guns do. All of this stuff, over time, has gotten spendy and that is simply the plain, unfortunate truth, and there is no getting around it. Can't accept that.....that's why they sell fish poles at Wally World, I guess.
 
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Here's an example of opinions & attitudes

A guy in our gun club made a remark a few years ago about rimfire benchrest rifles being so expensive. He said a fellow should be able to show up & compete with a average squirrel rifle. I knew he traveled some shooting trap but didn't give it much thought. Hell the guy I speak of is always complaining about something. Well our club built a trap house. Of course this same fellow complained that the club should have listened to him on construction details. I went to our first monthly trap shoot, he wasn't there. (off competing, I'm guessing now). Anyway the next time I went he was there & had 4 trap guns in a rack & each of them cost more than a first class rimfire benchrest rifle !!! :)
 
I have a question aboout IR-50 , It is three classes right.. Do most people shoot the 10 1/2 lb. rifle in the unlimited class also? Or do you actually have to have 3 guns.
 
BARTMAN said:
I have a question aboout IR-50 , It is three classes right.. Do most people shoot the 10 1/2 lb. rifle in the unlimited class also? Or do you actually have to have 3 guns.
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Most folks shoot a Sporter and one 10 1/2lb. gun for the 3-gun. Many, if not most, shoot the same 10 1/2lb gun in the unlimited matches as well often still using 2 piece rests although 1 piece rests are used. Down South or other areas where ARA is well represented, guys use heavier guns in unlimited since they have no weight restrictions.
 
glynn angle said:
A guy in our gun club made a remark a few years ago about rimfire benchrest rifles being so expensive. He said a fellow should be able to show up & compete with a average squirrel rifle. I knew he traveled some shooting trap but didn't give it much thought. Hell the guy I speak of is always complaining about something. Well our club built a trap house. Of course this same fellow complained that the club should have listened to him on construction details. I went to our first monthly trap shoot, he wasn't there. (off competing, I'm guessing now). Anyway the next time I went he was there & had 4 trap guns in a rack & each of them cost more than a first class rimfire benchrest rifle !!! :)
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You know, I think, guys that want to do this just find a way and guys that do not seem to have 12 reasons or excuses why they don't. It seems it's always been this way, just the nature of the game.
Also, back when this started, a decent gun on a given day would get you some wins. It really takes top flight hardware to do well in any kind of decent match and it's just not easy chasing those last points or X's here or there.
 
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Tim, I am shooting against new found friends in the unlimited class because that's really all thats available close by for the moment. Even when they hold a Factory class they are still using 1 piece rest,tuners etc against true factory rifles as stated. No tuners, bedding,etc. I can hold my own with my M12 and a 2 piece rest shot a 3 card 749/27x 1st time out in that class and probably could win with a sandbag and no rear rest if other's were forced to shoot that way as well as that's how I learned to shoot off a bench,none of this fancy equipment you have nowadays,But as I stated I have been away from the sport since H.S,Shot well enough then and can still shoot well. If you really need a 1 piece mount,custom this and that to compete it lessens the skill levels necessary to show your true shooting skills as well. Can you shoot well enough without what basically amount's to rail gun accuracy without all your special needs and frills. I'm not knocking the unlimited class as that's the reasoning behind it. What bother's me is the assumption apparently of a few here that money equates a skill level. Guess what bud,It don't. Making false assumption's about ones skill's usually will get you in a losing position regardless of the sport, if you know little about racing,golf,any true skill based sports I'm quite sure a skilled player in golf like McElroy/Woods/Mickelson,etc or others could beat you or I with a 7 iron and a putter most any day of the week on 18 holes,that's skill,not letting machines basically take the sporting skill required to compete out of your hand/trigger finger to compete. I won many championship billiard games in my life at a later age based on having a time tested good eye and have shot against the very best in that field with house stick and sandpaper and won.Worked with Don Garlits in drag racing way back when and won many races with mediocre equipment but used my mechanical skills to get the best performance with what I had at the time.It's about what you do with the skills you have 1st and foremost. Sadly you are mistaken regarding the monetary issues. Again it's just my humble opinion on the matter of having a factory class and the baseless admonishment of those with lesser funds. A member here told me it's more about the barrel and ammo than anything else,very sage advice taken wholeheartedly. Yes ammo's expensive and have graduated to the more expensive,yet find it provides at my level modest increase's in accuracy as I'm still testing to see what she likes,kinda like dating women to find the right one with class,character and good looks. But theres no reason to be snobbish about the sport now is there?
 
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So long story short....you have strong opinions, don't presently shoot, play pool. Thanks . Also don't confuse snobbery with facts, your post didn't contain many, if any.
 
Tommy, IR 50/50 or usbr would suit your preference a liitle better than others , because of the front rest and rear sandbag. I have started to buy a one piece rest several times, but always back out. Just seems to boring. But would like to shoot with one to be on the same playing field. May end up with one before it's over though
 
You are building new I.R50/50.Few fresh ideas:

*What if take new category 100 yd/100 m and shoot same target 50/50.Shooters skills and wind reading goes up and 250s are not very common anymore-:).

*Factory class.If you like that money NOT talks so much why not take rule copy from "every mans car competition"--> You must sell your equipment after competition with XXX USD if somebody likes to buy it.

My 2cents from dark Northern Europe.

BR, Timo
 
"So long story short....you have strong opinions, don't presently shoot, play pool. Thanks . Also don't confuse snobbery with facts, your post didn't contain many, if any."

Thanks for making my point,LOL ^^^^^^^^^^

Bartman, thanks maybe I'll try a match or 2 to see what it's about. I do practice with the IR 50/50 targets at 50 yards as well as others that are available to me and have no problems hitting the mark. Largest problem's I'm having so far are reading the mirage and wind effects,but look forward to the new season.As stated I'm shooting a factory stock rifle against others in mostly unlimited class as that's all available at the moment here and it is enjoyable thanks to the class of the folks shooting with. I have no fantasy's about being able to compete with them at that level with my current equipment.

They welcomed me with open arms and explained that it has become a game of money to compete with them,but I enjoy a challenge far more than anything else and will continue to shoot against from what I have seen of their current shooting records some of the finest,classiest individuals in the game.

Tommy
 
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Tommyt654. Most of us start with factory guns. All my guns still have factory actions. The problem for most of us , we don't have many shooters at our local match's . after we upgrade and the rest of the local shooters don't we are out by ourselves and have to travel to shoot with others that have the same equipment. I plan to go to the Louisiana shoot next month and maybe February. Also plan on going to slick willy range next year also. Just go with it and have fun.
 
The rules, as they are, are simple when you think about it for a moment - any rules. The rules simply limit the ability to go beyond. There will always be folks that are smart enough or have some ability to push any rule to its limit. If you think for a moment, you'll see what I'm saying here. I don't see any way to change anything that wouldn't cause severe problems - within any organization.

Alternatively, if you believe something will work on a national basis rather than just your club, then please do it. If you can convince me it will work...I'll do it.

But, to ask any "organization" to change the rules to suit you or your rifle will likely end as small talk. Changing equipment rules is a great big deal !! Setting up a new organization with new rules is not such a big deal but once set, a change is likely to be the end....and so it goes.....

I believe that anybody that has any rifle can compete within the rules of the ARA. So, why would you need anything else? Sure, I know why, but you can't win there with my rifle so why attend?

Here's the deal...folks that will not spend the money to have a winning rifle will likely not attend a match if there's anything else on their mind. They don't have to, there's something else they have to do, they don't like somebody that will be there...etc... Why would you believe that anybody would schedule a match given the commitment of these folks, which is none - much less several matches at the beginning of the year. What you're asking for will simply not happen in the long run and nobody can make it happen - it seems...or somebody would have done it already.

And finally, I'm old and set in my ways but know some stuff. I'm pretty sure about what I've written here but I could always be wrong. Nothing would make me happier than to be wrong about this NOT SO LITTLE deal.
 
You're not wrong Wilbur, as usual, using a little good old fashioned horse selse, you are right.
 
Sage advice Bartman,look forward to meeting you a Chickenfoot. Don't understand all the hoopla over starting a factory class for folks like myself,but there's always the CMP and NRA competitions to shoot in. Just thought since they seem father away and fewer, some might like to try it in these leagues as well. Maybe too much competition scares away folks from the game. Frankly I'd much rather see the leagues expand than decline in popularity.Too run folks away from it due to higher cost to compete seems unproductive to these organizations opportunity to expand and grow by disallowing another class. After all everyone I have spoken with says they started with a factory rifle and most still have one,why not try it again as popularity of shooting competitions grow:)

Tommy
 
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