IR5050 Champion of Champions to be crowned at Nationals weekend

[MaxxPower]

A new title is up for grabs at the upcoming IR5050 Nationals weekend at Kettlefoot- September 21,22,23.

For the first time ever all 3 Nationals– Sporter, 3 Gun and Unlimited– will be shot on the same weekend and the combined points winner will be crowned “Champion of Champions”. The winner of this title will also receive 10 Hall of Fame points and the largest trophy in IR5050 history.

As an extra incentive IR5050 has started a bounty for the first shooter to record a perfect score in all three matches- 4500. The bounty for this first year will be $500 and will be added to each year until this score is achieved.

Come and shoot the first ever 3-Day Nationals!

 

[linekin]

Incentives

I like that the 3 were combined but doubt it will boost attendance much. At least for the Sporter & 3Gun matches. The Sporter being the Achilles heal of it all.
Incentives are needed I think to gain more interest. I'm not sure an unrealistic incentive is the way to attract more shooters.
We'll see.

Keith

 

[tonykharper]

I like that the 3 were combined but doubt it will boost attendance much. At least for the Sporter & 3Gun matches. The Sporter being the Achilles heal of it all.
Incentives are needed I think to gain more interest. I'm not sure an unrealistic incentive is the way to attract more shooters.
We'll see.

Keith

Keith,

I think it is great that IR 50/50 has set up this bounty on a 4500 score for the three day Nationals. But, like you, I don't see it being achieved.

How about we come up with other incentives that we could contribute to, that would encourage more shooters to participate?

How about a 1500, Sporter 6 -gun agg. or maybe a 250 - 25X single card. Yes, these are also unlikely, but not completely so, (e.g. Gary Hamilton)

I am willing to put up some bucks for either of these, but would also like to consider other suggestions.

Truth is the Sporter is our most difficult class, that in itself makes it the least popular.

Very few will ever become an over night success shooting a sporter. It takes a lot of effort. Too many just aren't willing to put in that effort.

But I'm sure we have a number of shooters in our ranks that can, and will, rise to the challenge, if we offer the right kind if the incentives.

Come on guys let's come up with some ideas.

TKH

 

[tim]

There is really kind of an elephant in the room here. Anybody that spends any time at any matches can probably agree that the average participant demographic is well over 50 and could very well be over 60.
Unfortunately, nobody’s eyes get better at 60 and beyond and guys are bothered by low power scopes compounded by the fact that guys are still , way too often, using marginal optics on sporters instead of spending on a first rate scope making everything easier.
I do not think rules should change and agree with Tony that sporters take effort because they are hard, because they are SUPPOSED to be.
Unfortunately too many guys want easy.....not hard, especially hard/expensive.

 

[tonykharper]

There is really kind of an elephant in the room here. Anybody that spends any time at any matches can probably agree that the average participant demographic is well over 50 and could very well be over 60.
Unfortunately, nobody’s eyes get better at 60 and beyond and guys are bothered by low power scopes compounded by the fact that guys are still , way too often, using marginal optics on sporters instead of spending on a first rate scope making everything easier.
I do not think rules should change and agree with Tony that sporters take effort because they are hard, because they are SUPPOSED to be.
Unfortunately too many guys want easy.....not hard, especially hard/expensive.

I agree with you Tim. The 6.5 power scope requirement is often used as a reason for not shooting the sporter. However, we know other organizations have raised the scope power for sporters and had absolutely no success.

I don't believe expense is a driving factor. What we spend on high quality scopes and sporter rifles, is nothing compared to what others spend keeping an 8 second car competitive on the drag strip. Drag racing is growing every year.

I believe the scope problem is often because shooters try to use scopes with very thin crosshairs, crosshairs that are nearly impossible to see.

I can hardly see the crosshairs in my scope. My saving grace is I use a medium size dot. I use the dot like one shoots a peep sight. I judge my hold by centering the dot with the large outer black rings on the target. While it is true few, if any, can see the actual scoring rings with a 6.5 power scope, most can still see if the dot is centered or off center of the outer black rings.

When you see your flags are indicating a bullet of push, and a half bullet of lift, and you set your dot just off center and a little low and you release the shot, look through the spotting scope and see the bullet cut the X out. It is a great feeling.

Somehow, much more so satisfying than watching the X disappear looking through a 55 power scope, although that is pretty cool too.

You are also right about most want things easy, I don't know how to overcome that. Other than challenging shooters competitive sprit, and offering affordable incentives.

Would love to hear some suggestions.

The ABRA just completed their very first National Match at Kettlefoot. It went off without a hitch, and was very successful, everyone had a great time.

ARA just celebrated their 20th year, and completed their Nationals. They had the largest crowd in years. Everyone enjoyed the event, the comradery, and the competition.

Now, IR 50/50 is planning it's very first year to have the Sporter Nationals, 3 -Gun Nationals, and Unlimited Nationals all in one weekend.

This will allow shooters to attend all the IR 50/50 Nationals at one venue on one weekend. Saves everyone time and money, let's do what we can do to make it a success.

TKH

 

[tim]

Well here is one.
I believe it would help to begin to establish and advertise on forums, for instance, a series of classes, tips, talks, whatever, given by established shooters, champions, match leaders, so they may, particularly at important venues, give talks/tutorials on shooting sporters. Whether it be equipment, tecnique, simple things to be aware of concerning the shooting of the hardest but most satisfying gun in the 3 gun.
Takes little time, zero money, and allows folks some aid that simply feel ill equiped concerning sporters.

A second would be for all parties to consider occaisonal “ sporter schools “ to drive potential interest.
I have been around a couple IBS benchrest schools and they were always well attended and useful events .
To this day, every year, Bob White and Harley Baker run an intro to BR that is universally praised.
Face it, there are a boatload of guys on forums that seem to have equipment, interest, etc. but feel intimidated to show up at a sanctioned shoot for whatever reason .

 

[tonykharper]

Well here is one.
I believe it would help to begin to establish and advertise on forums, for instance, a series of classes, tips, talks, whatever, given by established shooters, champions, match leaders, so they may, particularly at important venues, give talks/tutorials on shooting sporters. Whether it be equipment, tecnique, simple things to be aware of concerning the shooting of the hardest but most satisfying gun in the 3 gun.
Takes little time, zero money, and allows folks some aid that simply feel ill equiped concerning sporters.

A second would be for all parties to consider occaisonal “ sporter schools “ to drive potential interest.
I have been around a couple IBS benchrest schools and they were always well attended and useful events .
To this day, every year, Bob White and Harley Baker run an intro to BR that is universally praised.
Face it, there are a boatload of guys on forums that seem to have equipment, interest, etc. but feel intimidated to show up at a sanctioned shoot for whatever reason .

Sounds like a good idea to me. I for one would be willing to share what little I know with anyone that expresses an interest.

I do feel this would have to be done "live" on range, because we all know what happens when someone shares on a forum what they believe to be a good technique, or suggests any particular equipment.

Let me just say this. If anyone is interested in learning about RFBR the best way is to show up at a match, any match, and I'm sure there will always be people there willing to share information, and their equipment to get another shooter in the sport. I've seen this happen time and again. Sometimes it sticks, and sometimes it doesn't, but nearly every active shooter I know is willing to help new comers.

If you read this and are interested in RFBR just show up, there will be help waiting. But I warn the help and advice you take is your responsibility. There are many ways to skin this cat, you have to choose one that works for you.

TKH

 

[Wilbur]

I'm willing to add a "forum" in support of anything useful...and that sounds useful to me! Give me the "rules" for posting and I'll do it. Would seem that such a forum would be limited to articles rather than just another line on the forum index.

oldhat30@gmail.com

 

[linekin]

Keith,

I think it is great that IR 50/50 has set up this bounty on a 4500 score for the three day Nationals. But, like you, I don't see it being achieved.

How about we come up with other incentives that we could contribute to, that would encourage more shooters to participate?

How about a 1500, Sporter 6 -gun agg. or maybe a 250 - 25X single card. Yes, these are also unlikely, but not completely so, (e.g. Gary Hamilton)

I am willing to put up some bucks for either of these, but would also like to consider other suggestions.

Truth is the Sporter is our most difficult class, that in itself makes it the least popular.

Very few will ever become an over night success shooting a sporter. It takes a lot of effort. Too many just aren't willing to put in that effort.

But I'm sure we have a number of shooters in our ranks that can, and will, rise to the challenge, if we offer the right kind if the incentives.

Come on guys let's come up with some ideas.

TKH

Some more on incentives as I see it.
How about a sum for the winner regardless of the score? 4500 isn't an incentive at all. Its like the sign at the local fish fry that says "FREE BEER TOMORROW".
The other sanctioning bodies offer a prize table & try to send everyone home with something. I realize its a little late for that now, but people like to get "free" things!
How about shoot 2 classes get the 3rd free? I'll bet people who don't shoot UL won't stay for it, & people who don't shoot 3 gun or sporter won't bother either. Its a $$ thing.
A banquet on Saturday night would be a nice touch. In conjunction with the annual meeting perhaps? This is about the only time some of us will see each other & it would be nice to all be in one place with our guard down so-to-speak.
Just some random thoughts.

Keith

 

[Hozzie]

Tony, I have heard a couple of things that I will pass along as information only. I have built a Sporter but don't have any matches close so I haven't even ammo tested it much yet.

1) Scope power. This has been beat to death and I won't argue it, but I have heard more than once that people don't like having to use a spotting scope just to see the target hits. It's more equipment (cost) and it's more to drag around and setup. May or may not be a contributing factor, but is at least a reason (excuse) I have heard.

One thing to maybe try as a test in some places is go ahead an increase a Sporter match to allow 2 classes, one 6.5 and one 20x (or something less than unlimited). See if anyone new shoots it. I know having yet another class is not a good thing, but if participation increases, maybe it is something to consider. For higher power, don't allow spotting scopes? I don't think anyone has the answer, but if you don't start to experiment some, no one is going to find out either until people just stop shooting it all together.

2) Standardize to a more international setup. Allow flat bottomed stocks so maybe people see a path to compete in some of the world championships without needed additional equipment. I am not sure what all of the differences are, but align them so it gives some consistency. This goes against a second class but it's not mutually exclusive of it either.

I know it isn't popular and it doesn't get much credence (especially from someone who doesn't shoot IR50/50 due to not having a sanctioned match close) but I absolutely can believe that people just don't want to mess with so many guns. Not even from a building/cost standpoint, but simply from a packing/unpacking and dragging them around standpoint. Heck, I hate packing and unpacking 2 guns to go to an ARA match. I can't imagine having to pack two different rests, 3 guns, spotting scope, and all else that it takes. I know the rests will never change and not saying they should, but somehow reducing the gun count simply from a packing perspective I think gets overlooked.

Anyway, nothing new per se, but changing nothing isn't going to fix the problem of getting more people to shoot or these discussions wouldn't be never ending. Just my opinion, but try some things. I don't think it has to be set in stone all at once. See what works through trial and error. In the end, it may do nothing, but at least something was attempted.

 

[Pete Wass]

I've been shooting 6X scoped rifles since 1999

I agree with you Tim. The 6.5 power scope requirement is often used as a reason for not shooting the sporter. However, we know other organizations have raised the scope power for sporters and had absolutely no success.

I don't believe expense is a driving factor. What we spend on high quality scopes and sporter rifles, is nothing compared to what others spend keeping an 8 second car competitive on the drag strip. Drag racing is growing every year.

I believe the scope problem is often because shooters try to use scopes with very thin crosshairs, crosshairs that are nearly impossible to see.

I can hardly see the crosshairs in my scope. My saving grace is I use a medium size dot. I use the dot like one shoots a peep sight. I judge my hold by centering the dot with the large outer black rings on the target. While it is true few, if any, can see the actual scoring rings with a 6.5 power scope, most can still see if the dot is centered or off center of the outer black rings.

When you see your flags are indicating a bullet of push, and a half bullet of lift, and you set your dot just off center and a little low and you release the shot, look through the spotting scope and see the bullet cut the X out. It is a great feeling.

Somehow, much more so satisfying than watching the X disappear looking through a 55 power scope, although that is pretty cool too.

You are also right about most want things easy, I don't know how to overcome that. Other than challenging shooters competitive sprit, and offering affordable incentives.

Would love to hear some suggestions.

The ABRA just completed their very first National Match at Kettlefoot. It went off without a hitch, and was very successful, everyone had a great time.

ARA just celebrated their 20th year, and completed their Nationals. They had the largest crowd in years. Everyone enjoyed the event, the comradery, and the competition.

Now, IR 50/50 is planning it's very first year to have the Sporter Nationals, 3 -Gun Nationals, and Unlimited Nationals all in one weekend.

This will allow shooters to attend all the IR 50/50 Nationals at one venue on one weekend. Saves everyone time and money, let's do what we can do to make it a success.

TKH

Pretty much exclusively when I shot IBS a lot and folks have the wrong idea about the 6X class. I think the major factor why the discipline isn't more popular is it's a lot more difficult to do and a lot more difficult to shoot the coveted 250. Somehow people need to shoot 250's relatively easily. It's no different in IBS and I can't speak for NBRSA. NBRSA seems to have more 6X shooters and has over the years. I have always liked 6X shooting more than unlimited scope power shooting, just have, for some reason.

Back before I had both cataracts removed and I was only seeing light with my left eye ( i'm right eye dominant), I found that I had to break the norm or the rule on never touching one's rear bell to re-focus the cross hairs along with the front parallax adjustment. I realize that is a cardinal sin but it enabled me to keep a sharp cross hair picture, in spite of sinning. I have been happy with conventional 6X scopes over the years, and not strayed from them. I find the old shiny black Burris scopes to be some of the best optics I have looked through. I have also had a couple of 6X HBR Sightrons that are great as well.I have had excellent results with Burris scopes over the years. Bottom line, is to try different things to be able to see. It's your eyes and your scope and this is America where we sometimes can do whatever we want.

As to running Nationals, I have successfully run one. Yes, people have come to expect to win valuable "Door" prizes @ Nationals and we were able to give some at the Nationals I ran. I think I noticed that another Org had a new rifle to give away at their recent event. That didn't draw me to attend but it certainly was a nice gesture. Titles and Championships have never been a draw for me as a competitor. I have attended a fairly good number over the years but more to just be there than in winning anything. I guess that comes from spending years of summers chasing Atlantic Salmon. Many trips are a bust because the fish either aren't there or aren't willing to take a fly. Having endured over 20 years of that, the whole Idea of having to accomplish something is sort of moot. I guess it's a different slant but once in that mindset, one is rarely disappointed with their trip. For me, new titles aren't an or the answer. I think a lot of folks don't like change of any kind, particularly our age group.

Truthfully, I don't see an answer. We are mostly a bunch of old men and becoming less and less able to do things we use to do. Bleak, I realize but it is what it is.

Pete

 

[linekin]

The incentive for me is to see folks I only see once or twice a year. I think that's the reason most all of us travel.
Also, when I travel outside of the usual stomping grounds I always seem to learn a little something. Talking with like minded people is incentive enough for me. I've never met a more open, willing to help in any way bunch, then in br competition.
I think that's how most of the attendees feel. Its convincing the rest is the hard part.
I also feel like you aren't much of a competitor shooting in your own back yard. I realize sometimes life gets in the way of attending every year for different reasons. But for me, to be a part of an organization it doesn't make sense to not support it as best as I can.
To anyone looking to maybe try it, there will be plenty of equipment to see, buy, or borrow there. This is the event you want to attend.

Keith