IBS score question 49-5x target

ScottD

ScottD

Member
This discussion came up at a club match and the rules don't really address it.

The rules says that on a crossfire the crossfiree gets the actual score less one point.

So if the person shoots four x's on there own target and one x on their neighbors target... what is their score?

My interpretation of the rules says would be a 49-5x.

When an identifiable crossfire occurs on another competitor's target, the low value or identifiable shot shall be transferred to the offender's target and a penalty of one point deducted.

Doesn't say anything about also deducting an x.

Scott
 
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Scott

a person performing a cross fire gets the crossfired score minus 1 point. So if they shoot an 10-X on the cross fire they get a 9 (10-1). Since you can't get a 9 and shoot an X their score would be 49-4X (assuming they got 40-4X on their own target). They loose the crossfired X as well as 1 point. Hope this helps. --Greg
 
This is an interesting question. Greg with your explanation you are assuming that ducting a point, in this case making the score a 9, equates to shooting that score. Technically the person shot a ten, the rule simply states to deduct a point. It doesn't state to treat the score as if he shot that score. It's a long winter so I figured I would keep this alive for a while. It ranks right up there when the rules stated that the plug was the only official scoring device but then we find out that other devices were being used for record's. Go figure. Randy J.
 
This is proof that

the Rule Book is a "Living Document" and things like this should be corrected without an agenda item and two years of wait. I think the "Reasonable Man" test should be applied to situations like this. Any reasonable man should accept the fact that if a person shoots a 9 it is a 9, crossfires not withstanding. :p
 
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Randy...

Randy J. said:
This is an interesting question. Greg with your explanation you are assuming that ducting a point, in this case making the score a 9, equates to shooting that score. Technically the person shot a ten, the rule simply states to deduct a point. It doesn't state to treat the score as if he shot that score. It's a long winter so I figured I would keep this alive for a while. It ranks right up there when the rules stated that the plug was the only official scoring device but then we find out that other devices were being used for record's. Go figure. Randy J.
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show me a 9-X. If a shooter shoots a crossfire 10-X and a point is deducted logic dictates loosing the X. I know it's cold and dark but.....I've never seen it treated differently but acknowledge the rule book is silent on the X. --Greg
 
Until....

In my matches, until I am over ruled by a printed official rule in either the IBS or NBRSA rule book, that 10X cross fire becomes a "nine".

virg
 
I am not the long time BR shooter that alot of you are but IMO, X's aren't points... they're X's,the tiebreaker so to speak. The book says " a point" and x's don't have the same value as points do. Drop an x and you will probably be ok, but drop a point and you'll drop like a rock usually. There are no
49-5x targets as far as I know--Mike Ezell
 
I think its silly to award points for hitting someone elses target. I mean, thats like shooting at a rooster ringneck and killing the hen instead. Just my $.02.:rolleyes:
 
me thinks UNTIL THE RULES IS CHANGES, the rule says to remove a point.
it does not say to remove an x. it does not say to award the next lower score, it does say to remove one point.
no room for opinions.....fix the rule to read what you want, but untill changed
it becomes a 49-5x
the rule does not address what some of you have voiced as your opinion: "award the next lower score". then a 10x would become a 9(no x).

its black and white till changed

as a match director i would expect to see the rule applied as written.....

mike in co
 
mike in co said:
me thinks UNTIL THE RULES IS CHANGES, the rule says to remove a point.
it does not say to remove an x. it does not say to award the next lower score, it does say to remove one point.
no room for opinions.....fix the rule to read what you want, but untill changed
it becomes a 49-5x
the rule does not address what some of you have voiced as your opinion: "award the next lower score". then a 10x would become a 9(no x).

its black and white till changed

as a match director i would expect to see the rule applied as written.....

mike in co
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I don't think enough people agree with that to warrant a change. The intent of the rule is obvious.
There is no X in the nine ring and if your target is scored a 9, then you can't get an X.
I may be a pretty new shooter, but with all due respect, No Way I'd Agree With That "interpretation".---Mike Ezell
 
Randy J. said:
This is an interesting question. Greg with your explanation you are assuming that ducting a point, in this case making the score a 9, equates to shooting that score. Technically the person shot a ten, the rule simply states to deduct a point. It doesn't state to treat the score as if he shot that score. It's a long winter so I figured I would keep this alive for a while. It ranks right up there when the rules stated that the plug was the only official scoring device but then we find out that other devices were being used for record's. Go figure. Randy J.
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Randy, I do not believe that any [score] RECORD was ever recorded which was not officially scored by the Records Committee. While some targets submitted for record may have been scored [during the event] using a reticle (we scored using a reticle for several years), ALL targets comprising a record Agg. must be submitted by the Records Committee, the members of which, for squeakers, probably employ the plug - what could be better than the committee placing a plug into a virgin hole? And, if no device is required - as in a visibly obvious score - is using the device still be required ?? :confused: RG
 
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R. G. Robinett said:
Randy, I do not believe that any [score] RECORD was ever recorded which was not officially scored by the Records Committee. While some targets submitted for record may have been scored [during the event] using a reticle (we scored using a reticle for several years), ALL targets comprising a record Agg. must be submitted by the Records Committee, the members of which, for squeakers, probably employ the plug - what could be better than the committee placing a plug into a virgin hole? And, if no device is required - as in a visably obvious score - is using the device still be required ?? :confused: RG
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Randy,
The IBS Records Committee looks at group and other disciplines potential record targets and renders a verdict....except in the case of Score. The Score Committee looks at potential Score records and renders a verdict. Apparently those that measure records to .001 are not capable of determining where a bullet goes through a Score target. :confused::rolleyes:

Just for the record, a 9 is a nine is a 9. No X in 9's.
 
I stand corrected . . .

David Apple said:
Randy,
The IBS Records Committee looks at group and other disciplines potential record targets and renders a verdict....except in the case of Score. The Score Committee looks at potential Score records and renders a verdict. Apparently those that measure records to .001 are not capable of determining where a bullet goes through a Score target. :confused::rolleyes:

Just for the record, a 9 is a nine is a 9. No X in 9's.
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But still, my point is that NO "record" is recognized until reviewed/scored by an OFFICIAL committee. Therefore, the [scoring] method used at the event, so long as the bullet-holes are not altered, is relative only to what was determined by the scorer and referees at THE event - that is, the placements. The Records Committee - whether a plug is used or, not, determines if a set of submitted targets holds up to record status. Further, assuming that no protest was filed, even if the Committee were to, say, decide/determine that a point should be deducted, the "offical results" of the event remain as determined at the conclusion of the event: only the record would be "lost".
By the way, I agree with those who "take" the X, along with the point - shooting a 9x is not possible. :eek::D RG
 
Thats not what the rules says

Y'all can talk about "intent" "interpretation" "reasonable man"...but that's not what the rule says.

It says When an identifiable crossfire occurs on another competitor's target, the low value or identifiable shot shall be transferred to the offender's target

At this point, as the scorer, i would write "10X" on the crossfirees empty target.

and a penalty of one point deducted.

I would then note "crossfire -1 point penalty"

It doesn't say "pretend they missed the ten ring" , or "there's no such thing as a 9-X"

It say "a penalty of one point deducted" from the transferred score.

Pretty straight forward language (for a change).
 
mwezell said:
I don't think enough people agree with that to warrant a change. The intent of the rule is obvious.
There is no X in the nine ring and if your target is scored a 9, then you can't get an X.
I may be a pretty new shooter, but with all due respect, No Way I'd Agree With That "interpretation".---Mike Ezell
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sorry...but you are wrong...you have interpretation...i have APPLIED THE RULE AS WRITTEN.

yes this is all stupid,....but the rule is the rule till changed...

the gentleman did not shoot a 9x, he shot a 10x...he was penalized one point for the wrong target.....a one point penalty....again it does not say to award a lower score..it says a one point penalty.
no he did not shoot a 9x, he was penalized a point...it does not change that he shot a 10x

again quit doing the easy thing, the "right" thing...fix the rule or quit applying your own PERSONAL opinion of a BLACK AND WHITE RULE.

"When an identifiable crossfire occurs on another competitor's target, the low value or identifiable shot shall be transferred to the offender's target

AND AWARD THE NEXT LOWER SCORE."
(INSTEAD OF "and a penalty of one point deducted")

I LOVE IT WHEN PEOPLE THINK THEY HAVE THE "RIGHT" TO INTERPRET BLACK AND WHITE RULES.
life is not fair...deal with it.
 
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5) If there is more than one shot on a record bull, and no identifiable crossfire has occurred, the lowest shot on the bull will be scored.


How about this....I guess since this rule doesn't SAY lowest point value, just lowest shot....If I have a shot to go high out of the 10 ring I can shoot it again and if the next shot is lower, it's the one that counts. That's what it says, in black and white.;)--Mike Ezell
 
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mwezell said:
5) If there is more than one shot on a record bull, and no identifiable crossfire has occurred, the lowest shot on the bull will be scored.


How about this....I guess since this rule doesn't SAY lowest point value, just lowest shot....If I have a shot to go high out of the 10 ring I can shoot it again and if the next shot is lower, it's the one that counts. That's what it says, in black and white.;)--Mike Ezell
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What'cha gonna do if they're perfectly on line with one another.....;)
 
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