I Finally Got To The Range With The "Frozen" Barrel.

jackie schmidt

jackie schmidt

New member
First, I apologize for taking so long, just been too darned busy as of late.

The barrel in question was my 1-17 twist Krieger 30BR that nailed 25 X's at the Louisianna State Varmint for Score this year, so It has a proven pedigree. On the insistance of Brian Roberts, I said what the heck, let's see what happens.

They took the barrel and performed their own brand of "cryo" treatment, at no cost to me, I might add. I guess they figure if I was willing to risk this barrel, they could gracious with the cost.

I put it back on my 30BR HV and the very first group this morning with 118 grn BIB's was a cool .120. I then shot another "mid one" and then nailed a group that looked about like a .32 caliber bullet hole in the target. We will call it a .050 to be on the safe side.

I then decided to try some Norma 200 that I aquired a while back. All I did was pour the 4198 out, and pour the Norma 200 into the measure, changing nothing else. The POI was almost identicle, and the first group was a nice round .150, backed up by a similiar looking .180.

I had to leave the range, so that was all I could do today.Now, I can't reall say if the Cryo helped the barre, but it sure didn't hurt it. The thing shot really well before, and it shoots really well now.

Perhaps I should have sent a barrel that had more of a future as a tomato stake, and seen if it improved after the Cryo. I took a risk sending this great performer, and by all accounts, it still is just that.

I should have taken it to Austin tomorrow and shot their monthly Varmint for Score Match, but I am going to relax tomorrow and watch the Talledaga Race.

I am sure Brian Roberts will chime in. For what it's worth, I think I just might send the 1-18 twist, (yeh, the one that shot that agg at Midland), to Brian and let them do the same treatment to it. I feel quite safe in saying that the proccess certaily will not hurt it, and by some accounts, might help.

The future will have the final say..........jackie
 
So, post test the best I can gather is that there is no change. If so, then what is the purpose?

Well, interesting still. thanks.
 
Jackie,
Don't forget to watch the MotoGP race tomorrow also.
 
When I first started shooting IBS Score back in 99 a number of the locals here were sending their barrels to some pretty lady and getting them cryoed. The practice wore off after a couple of years into my shooting career. I have heard that krieger cryos their barrels as part of their process; don't know if it's so .
 
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Steve, you are probably right, I took a excellent barrel and found out that it is still an excellent barrel. At the very least, we know that this particular Cryo Proccess does not hurt.

This Cryo Treatment is supposed to be different from others, whether it offers a true benefit to our particular application will take more than what we have done in this instance.............jackie
 
jackie schmidt said:
At the very least, we know that this particular Cryo Proccess does not hurt.
Click to expand...

Weellll, this exact line of logic has been selling vitamin pills for YEARS! (unfortunately now they're finding that vitamin pills CAN hurt, but that's a different issue.... )

lol


al
 
Benefits of Cryo Treatment

I first heard about cryogenics in the early 80's from a now deceased Hall of Fame shooter who was having his barrels treated. He said that the American textile industry had gone for Cryo in a big way. They were treating their needles and knives on their big equipment and getting extraordinary longevity on these expensive parts....in the order of 4 plus times longer useful life. It made that metal tougher and more resistant to wear.

People started Cryo treating razor blade, guitar strings, crankshafts and rods. Now it is aluminum bats.

I was told that it settles a barrel down from point of impact shift as it heats up and extends its useful life. I do know that cranks and rods do seem to last longer after the treatment.

The pretty lady mentioned above is probably Kathy Fisher in Ohio who is still in business.

I'm not that good a shooter to tell if there is an accuracy increase with the treatment, but it will not hurt a good barrel. If I had a mostly new "hummer" barrel, I'd have it treated in hopes of extending it's accuracy life.

Joe Jarrell
 
jackie schmidt said:
I should have taken it to Austin tomorrow and shot their monthly Varmint for Score Match, but I am going to relax tomorrow and watch the Talledaga Race.
The future will have the final say..........jackie
Click to expand...

Well, you'll have your chance again in November (Nov 28th) for the Austin match. Gary Bristow needs some competition.
virg
 
I believe that some of these places do not have the true ability to do an effective cryo treatment. Time will tell.
Butch
 
Well, Jackie, the next TIME you're running OUT of TIME in a....................

match, and you have to send many down range quickly, do feel that barrel........
If you can control heat, you should be able to retard the erosion to a greater degree, which equates to a longer lasting accuracy life.

The situation is, one is trying to preserve any workpiece from wear from friction, and wear as a result of erosion. There is more ongoing examination on the erosion side, and there should be some interesting developments before the first quarter of the new year is complete.

There are a couple labs that are going to run some properly processed barrels alongside their unprocessed barrels, so there should be some new developments in the next six months or so.

I know the shooters in my neck OTWs have noticed the difference in heating, and were quite surprised. But, of course none of us shoots as much as a competition shooter, so, we just aren't the ideal test-bed for a competition barrel. That said, being a frugal bunch, we try to keep barrels that shoot, on the gun longer.

Now, preliminary reports on standard barrels that are rack-grade, indicate the accuracy increase is immediately noticeable, so it should follow that if the accuracy increase isn't noticeable on superlative barrels, that are shot a bunch, the duration of that superlative ability should be evident for a longer period, and that's where a match-shooter comes into play as a test subject. Despite other reports, Rick has told me that as long as the proper procedures were followed in production, and bad material isn't found, they've never been told they've harmed a barrel.

As far as other processors, or even barrel companies go, all I can say is, that one isn't getting a "proper" or "true" cryogenic process without the vacuum-insulated machinery, and the duration, or "dwell" at temperature that is used in this instance.
With many processors, not using this insulation, it isn't economically possible to maintain the dwell at temperature for as long a period. Like photography, wider aperture, or longer exposure. In this case, a markedly colder temperature, for a markedly longer period all combines for the process to be more successful.

They tell me they're looking at even longer times in the future, to see what that brings, but that isn't in the line-up for barrels any time soon.
 
When Kevin Thomas was at Sierra he did an extensive shooting comparison, for accuracy and longevity, using .308 test barrels for their normal bullet QC testing. It was published in Precision Shooting. The labs should read it. They could save some time and effort. If I remember correctly, the change in accuracy was non existent, and the increase in barrel life negligible. If someone has a copy of the magazine, perhaps they could scan and post the article.
 
mojo2138 said:
I first heard about cryogenics in the early 80's from a now deceased Hall of Fame shooter who was having his barrels treated. He said that the American textile industry had gone for Cryo in a big way. They were treating their needles and knives on their big equipment and getting extraordinary longevity on these expensive parts....in the order of 4 plus times longer useful life. It made that metal tougher and more resistant to wear.

People started Cryo treating razor blade, guitar strings, crankshafts and rods. Now it is aluminum bats.

I was told that it settles a barrel down from point of impact shift as it heats up and extends its useful life. I do know that cranks and rods do seem to last longer after the treatment.

The pretty lady mentioned above is probably Kathy Fisher in Ohio who is still in business.

I'm not that good a shooter to tell if there is an accuracy increase with the treatment, but it will not hurt a good barrel. If I had a mostly new "hummer" barrel, I'd have it treated in hopes of extending it's accuracy life.

Joe Jarrell
Click to expand...

I have heard a couple of Smiths say that Cryoed barrels machine nicer than non-cryoed barrels. Perhaps this is an indication they might last longer?
 
Pete Wass said:
I have heard a couple of Smiths say that Cryoed barrels machine nicer than non-cryoed barrels. Perhaps this is an indication they might last longer?
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Me too. And I have heard a well respected action maker say machining after cryo treating was no better, perhaps not as good.

* * *

"Well, MY broker is XYZ, and he says 'Boy I've made a lot of money betting against my own customers lately.' "

Now that's data you can take to the bank (so to speak).
 
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