How often do you anneal your brass

R

Roy Allain

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How often do you anneal your brass and the reason for doing so.

Also, would you want me to do a poll? (If I can figure out how).

Thanks for any input.

Roy

P.S.: Or has this been done already? Where?
 
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I should anneal my brass no less then once for every 3 or 4 firings, but I don't, and sometimes I let it go for 4 or 5 firings. (but then, I also don't compete and risk losing a trophy over it) It doesn't hurt if you do it more often then that......the more the merrier.

You can tell when it's time to anneal; the bullets start loading difficult into the case and start popping into the case instead of sliding into the case neck smoothly. This is especially more evident if you use a Wlison seater and arbor press. This more difficult and inconsistant bullet seating then results in varying bullet pull, which in turn results in larger bench groups.
 
VaniB said:
You can tell when it's time to anneal; the bullets start loading difficult into the case and start popping into the case instead of sliding into the case neck smoothly. This is especially more evident if you use a Wlison seater and arbor press. This more difficult and inconsistant bullet seating then results in varying bullet pull, which in turn results in larger bench groups.
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I've never annealed my brass; probably because I wasn't aware of its effect on accuracy, as you posted. Can you direct me to an "Annealing for Dummies" how-to (using the simplest steps) website?
 
VaniB said:
I should anneal my brass no less then once for every 3 or 4 firings, but I don't, and sometimes I let it go for 4 or 5 firings. (but then, I also don't compete and risk losing a trophy over it) It doesn't hurt if you do it more often then that......the more the merrier.

You can tell when it's time to anneal; the bullets start loading difficult into the case and start popping into the case instead of sliding into the case neck smoothly. This is especially more evident if you use a Wlison seater and arbor press. This more difficult and inconsistant bullet seating then results in varying bullet pull, which in turn results in larger bench groups.
Click to expand...

Vani, that is the first time I've heard that about the bullet seating. Probably others have said that, but I just didn't connect it with annealing, I think. Also, I have had problems with hard seating, but again, I just never made that connection. A bad case of "CRS".

Many thanks,

Roy
 
Roy Allain said:
Vani, that is the first time I've heard that about the bullet seating. Probably others have said that, but I just didn't connect it with annealing, I think. Also, I have had problems with hard seating, but again, I just never made that connection. A bad case of "CRS".

Many thanks,

Roy
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There's different things that go into play with how smooth your bullets will seat.....and it's not just annealing alone. But without annealing, I just can't begin to get consistant and uniform tension with how the bullets seat in the cases. I exclusively use S neck bushing dies which controls the size of the case neck diameter, but the bushing size and case neck size that you think are just perfect will still not seat a bullet smoothly if you are working with case hardened brass. You can often circumvent annealing by sizing your cases down, and then using a K&M expandiron to size the case back up to a near perfect diameter........but ultimately, you really need to get at the crux of where the difficulty originates and anneal evey so often.
 
I don't anneal either my PPC or 30BR brass. After about 15-20 firings it is time to throw it away or give to Jay Lynn Gore. Now, since I have not shot much in the last few years I blamed a bad group on myself, so your saying it is my brass?
 
I am such a believer in annealing uniforming neck tension I even do new brass with the exception of Lapua.
 
aka Hunter said:
I've never annealed my brass; probably because I wasn't aware of its effect on accuracy, as you posted. Can you direct me to an "Annealing for Dummies" how-to (using the simplest steps) website?
Click to expand...

The best thing for starters is to go to youtube to get a visual of how and where flame is applied to the case. This will introduce you to the process. DON'T take everybody and anybody there as literal or as gospel until you have done a LOT of researching. There are some professionals and knowledgable vendors there who offer machines for sale and provide good advice. You will soon figure out who knows what they are talking about and who's advice may be suspect. For example, one guy there is frying his brass fire red and well beyond safe tolerances. If you weaken the web and hull of the case like this, you stand good chances of catostrophic failure with the case.

I'm cheap, and I also don't shoot hundreds of rounds a month. So, I declined in buying the nice commercial machines you see available on youtube. A good way to learn the procedure is to buy a small bottle of 750 ° tempilaq at Midway. You brush this on the neck of your case and spin the case in the flame of a propane torch until the tempilaq changes color. I use a small mechanics socket on an extension and placed in a drill to slowly spin the case. Spin each case in the flame the same uniform amount of time until the tempilaq changes to the same color each time. For example; I will spin my 223 cases in the flame and count steady to 9, 10, or 11 seconds, and then dump the case into a tin can. If you keep the flame set the same, with a steady slow drill rotation, and the duration is kept the same, then your cases will anneal in a nice uniform manner. Start first with practice cases that you will discard. After awhile, you will not need the tempilaq to know just how the heat rainbowing on your cases should look.
 
So many variables

It's funny that different shooters will have different issues with the same brass. Usually what happens is that after about 30 loads my primer pockets begin to get loose but neck tensions remain constant no other problems develop. Consequently I don't anneal at all. At about the 15 load mark I might use a bump die once. Average load about 29gn of N133Only use Lapua brass.
Andy.
 
Butch Lambert said:
I don't anneal either my PPC or 30BR brass. After about 15-20 firings it is time to throw it away or give to Jay Lynn Gore. Now, since I have not shot much in the last few years I blamed a bad group on myself, so your saying it is my brass?
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You never know......add another teqnique to your handloading process, and you may be surprised to find out what you have been missing all this time. (maybe.)

But, now don't get me started. You've already seen my pictorial of What you can do in the privacy of your closet..... right? Well, with a flaming propane torch I head to the garage instead.......and that would be a whole nuther seperate topic. I'd probably title it; "Doing the red-hots in your garage."
 
Andy Cross said:
It's funny that different shooters will have different issues with the same brass. Usually what happens is that after about 30 loads my primer pockets begin to get loose but neck tensions remain constant no other problems develop. Consequently I don't anneal at all. At about the 15 load mark I might use a bump die once. Average load about 29gn of N133Only use Lapua brass.
Andy.
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I don't doubt that a lot of folks have done fine with having never annealed their cases. But I will bet you too that a lot of folks are experiencing certain problems but not reaizing that these problems are associated with hardened brass necks......that can be remedied with annealing.

I can tell you that I have confirmed on paper the difference between one group of cartridges with very difficult bullet pull, VS another group of catridges with very smooth and uniform pull. The handloads were identical in every other way and being fired on the bench from my AR with a collapsible stock; (not exactly a "bench" type rifle) One group was 5/8" and had 4 out of 5 shots touching and all shots clustering, and the other group had none of the shots touching and were scattered in 1 1/8". I've repeated these results over and over.....and now I don' bother using cartridges with tough bullet seating.

The bottom line is that if your bullet pull is smooth and uniform, then you don't need to anneal. So then skip the process. BUT......if you experience what I have described above, then get out the blow torch.
 
Bill Gammon said:
Anealing brass and using left over wine for cooking fall into the same cataglory!!!!!!!
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Not sure I see the connection between brass and wine. (?) My culinary skills are limited, but I do know enough of the basics to stay out of trouble in the kitchen.... A lesson I learned early on; He who cooks carrots and pees in the same pot is unsanitary.
 
Before and now..

I use to not anneal at all. Then I began annealing after 6 or 7 loadings. After buying a Bench Source annealer I started annealing every 3-4 loading. Now I am annealing everytime I reload a case.

Butch All your .223 brass was cleaned (again) full length sized, trimmed -.010", chamfered in/out, cleaned again, annealed, loaded, cleaned again, and case gauged in SAAMI Gauge.

Nat Lambeth
 
I think it depends

on how rough one uses their cases. If one isn't shooting hot loads, cases can be used many, many times if they are annealed. A friend and I have owned a Ken Light machine for years and used it a bunch. I have always shot 30 Cal stuff and most of them not that tough on primer pockets.

A friend, who anneals and has done studies on the results of annealing says the second firing after annealing yields the best accuracy, which steps down gradually as one uses the cases through the 6th firing at which point seating starts to become erratic. I have tried to anneal after every 6 firings; haven't always been able to though.

Another area is the inside of necks. Not only does carbon build there but a patina does as well and even with the carbon removed, the patina will make seating un-smooth. Polishing the inside is the best situation but just removing the patina will make seating a lot more consistent. I gave up on Wilson seaters years ago because of inconsistent OAL's of loaded rounds. I use a Forster Micro seater and have different sliding chambers for the different calibers I have. Hard to beat, IMHO.

That said, for those who jam hard, forget all of this, just keep using smaller neck sizing bushings until the necks break off. :).

Pete
 
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