How may I obtain the best .270 Wnchester brass?

Cheechako said:
Making 270 brass from 30-06 cases has been going on since the 270 made its first appearance. You're right that the cases will be shorter than specs, but they still shoot just fine.

Ray
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Sort of like Supermarket coffee. It delivers the caffeine (and little else).
 
Ray, Ive done it too. Just wont fit the chamber perfect. Bright side, you wont have to trim the cases. Now ,Im gonna have a cup of coffee.
 
Zeke--I've found that Norma 270 brass was very good and old Winchester boxed brass was also very good, I use it to neck down to 25-06 being that 270 brass is built to a higher psi rating (5,000 psi) than 06 brass.
 
Dan Conzo said:
Zeke--. . . being that 270 brass is built to a higher psi rating (5,000 psi) than 06 brass.
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Dan - Do you know that as a fact? How is it built differently? Which brands? Just asking.

Ray
 
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Dan

A good friend, who happens to be a lawyer, tells me, "Never ask a question that you don't already know the answer to."

Here's a photo of two sectioned cases showing the guts. One is a 30-06 and one is a .270. Which is which??

wisq5v.jpg
 
Cheechako--I've read it many times thru the years that Winchester wanted the 270 to be a real hot rod so they made the brass stronger to take the loads. I recently had a Ramshot Powder catalog that also verified this, also check SAAMI Cartridge Pressure Standards. Some companies may make 06 and other brass to the same standards as 270 but the way I understand it 270 Win brass has to be held to a certain higher standard.
 
I would say the one on the right which looks as though it has a thicker web and thicker sidewalls where it counts.
 
Don't believe everything you read. Not even what you read here.

The one on the right is an R-P 30-06. On the left is a Winchester .270.

Ray
 
Well Ray I can see that it is definitely thicker but what about metallurgy, however if I'm wrong I've been wrong before> In the meantime Zeke scratch what I told you, I'll try harder the next time.
 
Again I looked at the SAAMI Cartridge Pressure Standards and what I read is 60,000 psi for the 30-06 and 65,000 psi for the 270 Winchester, correct me if I'm wrong.
 
just get back on track...cold ...pepsi
from mexico in a bottle...
ingredients:
carbonated water
sugar...(most likely cane)
carmel color
phosphoric acid
caffine
natural flavor......
now go read the chemical disaster on a can of pepsi or coke form the good ol' us of a...

kicking back with a cold one...awwwwwwwww

(off topic..nice pics ray)

mike in co said:
cold...pepsi in a bottle from mexico...real pepsi..not a usa chemical solution....
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Dan

No, you are not wrong. The SAAMI max pressure for a cartridge is higher for the .270. But, we're talking brass cases, not loaded cartridges. A typical modern brass cartridge case can withstand pressures well in excess of the SAAMI max for either a standard loaded cartridge or a proof cartridge. There is a very large safety factor built into both the rifle and the cartridge case, regardless of the caliber. For example, 30-30 cartridges are typically loaded to a max pressure of 38,000 psi but handloads for a bolt action rifle can safely exceed that by a wide margin. There have also been some very hot wildcats designed around the 30-30 case. 45-70 factory loads usually are the neighborhood of 18,000 psi. But the same case in a Ruger or Siamese Mauser rifle can be loaded to 50,000 psi.

As always, everything I say is JMHO. YMMV.

Add enough Baileys and the brand of coffee doesn't really make any difference. Baileys on the rocks is even better.

Ray
 
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Ray-- I always thought SAAMI specs meant you can exceed these specs but the cases had to withstand the listed spec as minimum. I'm not totally convinced that thicker means stronger, however I just sectioned two cases; a 270 Win (Federal) case and a 30-06 (Winchester) case and from 1/2" from the bottom the 270 measures .036" and 06 measures .031" measured with a Mituyoyo Ball Micrometer. Maybe you remember the original 7x61 Sharpe & Hart, then came the 7mm Rem Mag, then came the 7x61 Sharpe & Hart Super which was the same outside dimensions with more room for powder inside to compete with the 7mm Rem Mag. I may be wrong on this but they had to thin some brass somewhere.
I'm aware of the 45-70 senario and the 257 Roberts with bullets seated real deep. The M1 Garand and the operating rod damage with max loads. I wonder since I didn't look into it yet if there is different grades of cartridge brass.
 
Can you imagine the trouble it would be to develope a specific brass formula for each intended pressure level, 30-30 vs. PPC. I don't know but would think each manufacturer uses his best brass to make every cartridge case.
Perhaps I am wrong.
 
kansasvet said:
Can you imagine the trouble it would be to develope a specific brass formula for each intended pressure level, 30-30 vs. PPC. I don't know but would think each manufacturer uses his best brass to make every cartridge case.
Perhaps I am wrong.
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"Best Brass" is sort of misleading. By in large, strength comes from case design and the drawing/annealing processes. Remember in 1957 the Frankford Arsenal skipped one draw on the match brass, and while it could be safely fired, it couldn't really be reloaded? The reason given at the time was to "streamline the production" (i.e., save time & money). The various draws & (partial) annealings are very important in case strength.

Problem we have is it would take a punch press & dies before we could work harden (draw) cases for added strength. You can *probably* achieve the same thing by fireforming the case with medium pressure loads before really hitting it, but that has some consequences, too.

By in large, as I understand it (a risky notion), the SAAMI maximums have more to do with rifle and case design rather than "brass quality."

FWIW

Ah, just made a fresh pot of coffee. Brewed a little strong, just like Wibur prefers. Didn't use a French Press, so maybe Al wouldn't approve.
 
Charles E;678761 . . .Remember in 1957 the Frankford Arsenal skipped one draw on the match brass said:
Charles

The "problem" with the Frankford Arsenal '57 Match brass lasted only a short time and was in the primer pocket only. During WW II, all primers were crimped and sealed, which was sufficient to hold them in place, even when used in MGs. So, forming the pocket in one draw was sufficient. But when the crimp was omitted in the Match cases it was found that the fired cases often had loose pockets so they were not recommended for reloading. So, they returned to the old two draw process which made the sides of the pocket straighter and the metal more "springy". At this same time, Frankford was testing a new styphnate non-corrosive primer and the primer pocket was tailored to it.

Nothing else was done to the rest of the case, AFAIK. I have a couple of test cartridges that were made to compare the two different processes. They are specially marked and are more-or-less collectable

Ray.
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You could be right Ray, I'm getting my information from Ken Howell...

In any case, the number of draws is a factor in case head strength. Phil Bowers' brother made him a die for their punch press to (work) harden his cases. As I recall, he didn't bother to use it much, but it would have done the job. Most of us don't have either Phil's skills, knowledge, or tools.
 
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