How do you keep them coming back?

J

Joe Haller

Guest
Last year our club UP here in God's Summer Paradise ran 7 matches: April to October.

We had a total of 52 different shooters during the year at our matches.
The average number of shooters per match was 19. We must not have the right formula, as we are only hitting 37%.

I have read suggestions on here about how to push match attendance up. We have tried some of them. Like: e-mail, phone calls, notices in the club's news letter, telling them "what's for lunch". Special shooting related prizes given out by luck/raffle and newspaper stories.

You got any ideas on pushing match attendance up, that work well?

Joe Haller
 
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Just some "food" for thought...........

Mr. Haller i'll take a stab at it from maybe a different view. I'm new to bench rest and target matches. I haven't entered into a competitive match so far but i'm working on the courage to do it.

It is a little intimidating for a new guy to walk onto the "playing field" knowing he just might get a "black eye". It ain't the "black eye" that hurts -it when everyone sees it that hurts, lol.

I have a background in competitive motor sports. Drag racing is point "A" to point "B". To me it's just like benchrest is -Point A to Point B. We have clocks to measure achivement, you guys have targets and calipers. I like that, sucking ass won't get you ahead in these sports, you gotta do it, calipers don't lie

In my sport We will start a new class and as many as 20 cars will show up for the first race.... after about 6 races we're down to 5 or 6 cars. When the racers figure out they ain't gonna win, they don't come back.

Now i don't know about bench rest but i'm guessing the guys that win come back, the guys that are close come back but the guys that see they ain't never gonna win don't come back.

Mr. Haller i'm about your age, when i grew up you didn't quit because you didn't win - you worked harder until you were winning. Those values are gone. Now days i feel the work ethic is if you don't win first time out or second at the most, take up a new hobby.

Now i'm just guessing here but people are people and they don't like to loose. I'm guessing you get a new shooter but they don't come back after several shoots, they are just too far behind the front runners. Like drag racing there is always a couple of guys that can afford the best equipment and have to time to develop their skills.

I've got a couple new classes for this year and we're gonna try to "handicap" the winner of each race by adding weight to the winning car for the next race. I have been trying to do this for 5 or 6 years but the racers wouldn't go for it. I have harped on 'em so much if we don't handicap the winners some way they won't ever have a class that will live. I think they are finally wanted to get in a class and keep it going.

Yea it is un American to handicap the winners but if you can't keep a class close there won't be enough participants to keep a class going. I don't mean handicap the winners so the rookie will win, but maybe rein in the winners a just bit. If you win a match handicap the next event for the winner, deduct 1x or add .010 if your shooting groups. A top guy might still be winning carrying a minus 3 or 4 of his x's or winning with a +.050 to his group size, that would be a badge of honer in itself and maybe make some of the lessor shooters would be more in the hunt for a win.

It is not anything wrong your doing Mr. Haller, in my view it is just an adjustment of modern day moral character we are having to deal with. my 2 cents: joe
 
Mr. Frosty...

Joe, keep up the good work. I know a lot of ranges that would ;like to average 19 shooters at each match. Some clubs are scratching to get enough people to show up to make a match..

We are thinking about coming up to Michigan next year and will try and get up to your place for a shoot..

Dave Smith
 
Joe H,
Important subject! Along the lines of what Joe G said, people don't want to loose ALL the time. Nor do folks that have put a lot of time and money into something want to loose to someone new that hasn't paid their dues. Perhaps having class "A" & "B" (or even"C") might help. Where you may shoot next to a top ranked class "A" shooter but you only compete against people in your own class. If you feel like moving up a class, go-for-it. Kind of like getting to play in the pro-am every month and not loosing to the pro but, playing alongside, seeing, and learning what a PRO really can do.
I'm taking my bruises right now learning to read wind and don't quite have gun/ammo up to par "yet". I'm old enough (probably older than most) and I won't drop out. But, I do understand how some would get discouraged (short on money or experience or time).

Wishing you the best and please share successes.

Regis
 
Regis,
I can agree with your statements. It used to get discouraging when I started shooting and get my butt handed to me on a plate. However, I have gotten better due to the fact that the pros have helped me along. I did not shoot but one time last season due to illness in the family, but I will be there this year! I goto a match competing against nobody but myself. i have found out being like that has made me a better shooter. The year before last, I shot extemely well, I finished fairly high at my gun club. Money does become a factor. I just make do with what I got, and don't worry about the rest. I cannot wait until the season begins!!!!
 
a club

i wish there was more interest around here. just a rimfire club, know how i could get one started. i live in southwestern ohio. also wish i had a good hunting partner. or a least someone that takes these things as serious as i do. one fell0ow that hunted with(use too) wouldn't go beyond 100yds from the truck and no longer than two hrs and he's had enough, and he's twenty yrs younger. has plenty of access to great places to hunt and shoot but is to lazy to do so, i know what he does for a living so thats no excuse. anybody in ohio or surrounding want to hunt, or be serious about target practice give me a holler.:confused:
 
22 cracker find a local sporting club

i know there are tons of coon hunting clubs in your area hamilton coon club for one then attend get to know them and go to meetings start asking for permission to use their property to get a range going if one isnt there already and then work at it and it does take work post notices in every sporting goods store in 100 mile radius go to gun shows post bills leave number and dont quit it takes time but it can happen also make the rules and live by them dont be changing club rules at every match or meeting that happens once a year at bylaw meeting how do i know these things work? well it happened here in my area and we have weekly shoots now that are well attended in two different locations so anyone wanting to shoot in corning elmira ny area or mansfield pa area contact me and i will help you out
 
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Bring them back

Hi Joe,

Location & frequency.

Joe, I live in the Wisconsin part of "Gods Summer Paradise" and we both know and my wife won't let me forget, its a long way from anywhere. I used to live in the "Hub" of the country and although attendence was on a steady decline from the 60's on we still drew competitors from 7 states for NRA matches. We held two, sometimes three outdoor matches a year. The participation was better at a more meaningful (regional, State) match than a "local".

Agreed, nobody likes to lose but thats not the factor. There were/are people coming to matches who shot to say they shot and mingle and conversate. They seemed to be in more numbers than the "true competitors".

The idea of shooting was always at hand but really took place after WWII and escalated into the 60's. In those days experiencing a shooting match was better than doing nothing because we had less "nothing" to do. As the decline began we too wondered.

I got your program several years ago and I think its great, something for everyone. I'd love to attend but for me its a 6 to 7 hour drive and thats a way. However, I keep it on the warmer.

bjm
 
jGEE said:
It is a little intimidating for a new guy to walk onto the "playing field" knowing he just might get a "black eye". It ain't the "black eye" that hurts -it when everyone sees it that hurts, lol.
Click to expand...

"Ditto"

jGEE said:
Mr. Haller i'm about your age, when i grew up you didn't quit because you didn't win - you worked harder until you were winning. Those values are gone. Now days i feel the work ethic is if you don't win first time out or second at the most, take up a new hobby..
Click to expand...

Not going to completely disagree here but I think a bigger factor among my friends is a lack of deep pockets. A little research and they soon find out they cannot afford to have the big boys toys! Some have to personality to come and be happy at the back of the pack and some don't.
 
Everybody that shoots BR and comes back for more has N-Ach or need to achieve. This is not just a name but is an actual psychological need that has been studied on many levels. You can't build it, buy it, teach it, or just decide you have it. That's the first requirement, but it does not mean that everyone with N-Ach will choose BR as their game. But these are the people who will come back, which explains why it gets harder and harder to compete. I hate to see people who have shot BR for years quit, but it doesn't really bother me much when someone just decides it's not for them after one, two or a few matches. You can't make someone love the game.

Critical information for Newbies: Nobody pays attention to where you placed unless it was at the top or close to the top. You are expected to have a learning-equipment buildup period.
 
Uh, a ham or turkey, prize money. We shoot once a week for a new silver dollar for first place on a target that someone has made up. First place gets a new silver dollar worth about 15 to 17 bucks. 3 dollar entry fee.

A free entry into the next match could be held by a drawing so everyone has a chance to win.

A one dollar entry fee for shooting a target with all of one suit of playing cards. You know, deuce through ace. Make the target a dot and label it with a card. Then draw a card from a deck of cards after the targets are retrieved. You only get one shot. Winner takes all. One rouge dot target with closest to the dot to settle ties.

Have a Quigley match with a bucket of water at 200 to 300yards. Dollar per one shot entry and winner takes all. Settle ties with a shoot off.

We've done it all and everyone has a ball. But most important, everyone comes back because even the worst shooter has a chance to win something.
I know, I've been there.
Shooting with friends with not so much emphasis on competition and having to win at all cost.
Dale McClure
 
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I don't think that prize money or luck drawings are the reasons that people attend matches. It is for the friends they meet and the chance to shoot as good as their abilities will allow. A small $1 hat pin is reward enough and it means more than a $5 prize. We are spending $15 to $25 on ammo alone.

Concho Bill
 
I respect your opinion Bill. I always felt shortchanged with the IR and ARA pins. I would have felt better with nothing.
We have been having our same matches for about 12 years and everyone is happy and I never hear any complaints. We have shooters in their 30's and a couple in the 80's.
The whole match is called our "Fellowship Match". We have fun and quality BS time once a week. What could be better than that?

This is the way we shoot in our town, and we will keep doing it this way unless someone comes up with something more fun.
Doesn't mean you would have the same fun in your town.

I've been on the IR, ARA, NBRSA center fire trail before. I have much more fun at our local matches.
Shooting rim fire and center fire in the same summer is stressful. When the "I gotta win or my whole weekend is blown" mentality is always there, it's not fun for me anymore, even when I win.
 
RegisG said:
Joe H,
Important subject! Along the lines of what Joe G said, people don't want to loose ALL the time. Nor do folks that have put a lot of time and money into something want to loose to someone new that hasn't paid their dues. Perhaps having class "A" & "B" (or even"C") might help. Where you may shoot next to a top ranked class "A" shooter but you only compete against people in your own class. If you feel like moving up a class, go-for-it. Kind of like getting to play in the pro-am every month and not loosing to the pro but, playing alongside, seeing, and learning what a PRO really can do.
I'm taking my bruises right now learning to read wind and don't quite have gun/ammo up to par "yet". I'm old enough (probably older than most) and I won't drop out. But, I do understand how some would get discouraged (short on money or experience or time).

Wishing you the best and please share successes.



Joe..You have that right on the money.. I have been in competitive bow shooting for 15 years and thats how we do it. Newbes are always welcomed and made to feel at ease, and to have fun with it and dont worry about score, only your form. When you do classes like that, it makes them work up the latter to catch there mentor.. Thats there goal. AT least thats was the way I felt when I started the game of archery.

The main thing is, always make the new shooter feel welcome and teach them stuff they dont know or show them some tricks. It works. They will listen because they want to be as good as you.

New shooters, and not so new shooters, are always so intiminated by all the stuff going on, they dont know what to do, they dont even know how or where to sign up at, they are that nerved up!. If you guild them they will listen to you because you are the mentors they want to be.

For me, I just want people to help me get my feet wet. I dont care about score, that will come with time and practice and from the people around me.

I am not a BR shooter yet.. but I might be. I am still learning stuff. I have one freind here in Michigan that shoots BR. I ask him all kinds of questions and he always makes me feel welcome. Sometimes I feel so bad because I ask to many questions and he is trying to reload and shoot when my mouth is going.

But hey.. I am hungry to learn.. and he dosnt seem to mind teaching me some stuff. Plus I have made a great friend.

Thats my take on it anyway
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Bill Wynne said:
I don't think that prize money or luck drawings are the reasons that people attend matches. It is for the friends they meet and the chance to shoot as good as their abilities will allow. A small $1 hat pin is reward enough and it means more than a $5 prize. We are spending $15 to $25 on ammo alone.

Concho Bill
Click to expand...

I have about 100 IR and ARA pins and stars if you would like to have them, free. Doesn't make me feel better, would it make you feel better?
I'm strickly in it for the fun from now on.
Dale McClure
 
Our club, San Angelo Gun Club, shoots IR-50/50 and we are in it for the fun. We have one official match each month on a Saturday of three targets and two practice matches on Tuesday afternoons starting at three.

We charge $5 for each match and after paying for the targets, the fees to 50/50, and bottled water we still have change that we use to help out our range.

We always send out by E-mail the reminder of our shoots to everyone who has shot with us. We send out a match report that will show the scores and some of notes on the weather conditions, as well as, positive comments about how our shooters did.

Winning sometimes is nice but we are there to be with out friends.

Our 22 group has assumed the maintenance for our rifle range. We have built much better benches, put up new canopies, a small scoring shed, a shotgun range, started 22 silhouette shooting (it is going well), and we maintain the the target backers.

As we all know, The downside to this sport, benchrest, is that, to do well, it takes time and it takes money. It is not for everyone.

The 22 silhouette takes much less equipment and you can use cheaper ammo. All you have to do is stand up on your hind legs and shoot at metal animals from 40 yards to 100 yards. The average guy with a used $50 hunting type 22 has as good of a chance as someone with a $1500 custom rifle.

A mix of these things seems to help. Check out our website.

http://www.sanangelogunclub.org/home.htm

Concho Bill
 
Our club has held 50/50 for two years now, attendance is very low, barely four shooters to qualify for record. One match last summer, there was a guy at the range who hadn't read the calendar and was there for open shooting on the range we were occuping for 50/50. He had to shoot at the adjacent range until we were done. He had a tricked-out 10/22 I had seen him with it before so I kinda knew him, the little 10/22 shot pretty good. Our matches are unlimited class and I practically begged this guy to shoot with us, he wouldn't have any part of it, it wasn't the money as we only charge the $1 entry fee. I don't know, couldn't figure it out.

Another analogy, at the same club we have trap on Tue nites. I'm definately not a trap shooter, but enjoy it for what it is. I shoot with a couple guys who are like me, field guns, just for fun. But here's the rub, what I do not enjoy. Sometimes to fill out the five man squad, we get a guy who is almost a pro, shoots 25 all the time, doesn't say a word, strickly by the trap etiquette book, gets upset if we goof around. Two sides to every coin.

Thanks, Douglas
 
I think the fella that shoots a 25 trap score every time wouldn't be there if he wasn't having fun.

Our club is situated on a square mile with 1,300 members. We have every kind of range you can think of. Most ranges are manicured like a golf course. It was built by the Army Corps of Engineers in the early 60's, in return they could use our high power range once every summer. The Marines also use the same range.
We have the finest bench rest range I have ever shot on but we can't get enough people to show up for a sanctioned rimfire match. Benchrest or NRA silhouette. But our un-sanctioned .22 matches thrive. Go figure?
 
The best way.

The best way to keep them coming back would be with $5 a box Eley Tenex and $1 a gallon gas. In this economy that maybe just about the only thing. I cut way back last season due primarily to the high cost of ammo and gas.
 
Talked about this with one of the guys in our club and he had interesting concept. A club could put together a pool of equipment to help new members get started without such a large outlay. Who's gun wouldn't shoot better on a quality rest? Some members may also be able to bring an extra competition capable rifle. Could have a nominal lease where money could go to club or after 6 monts back to the individual to buy his own. Equipment (not guns) could be kept at range.

Some have already metioned, it must be fun or some won't hang-in long enough to become a top shooter.

With all the gun shops in our area, not one has any competition equipment or even match ammo. Sooo, there is no promotion from the shops. That would probably help a lot in rasing interest.

Good subject with difficult and varied answers (I guess).

Regis
 
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