How do I check Unertl bases for being level?

R

REA

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My UltraVarmint doesn't have much windage correction left on one side after centering the group at 200 yards. It has an extended rear base.

The person who made the base said the barrel might be canted. How can I check for this? If the barrel needs to be adjusted would the threads have to be altered or something like that? Thank you.
 
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One way I would check Unertl bases' was to take the barreled action out of the stock, and mount it steady on a flat surface. Put a precision parallel on both bases'. Looking from the back, check that both parallels' are level to one another. The human eye can detect a very small error this way if either base is crooked, or canted.
 
If its that much out you ought to be able to look over the top of the scope and see any divergence between the scope and barrel.
 
"The person who made the base said the barrel might be canted. "

Canted would mean that the barrel is screwed in and the scope mount holes are not at precisely 12 o'clock. This could have happened if the barrel was drilled and tapped incorrectly, or the barrel has been removed and tightened differently and the good job of D&T was canted out of position.

The two straight edges or levels to sight over will detect a cant.

The mounts on this scope have a lot of adjustment. If its almost used up because of a flaw in the position of the mount blocks it will be detectable by a close look. There will be an obvious difference between the scope and barrel positions relative to each other that can be seen by looking at the rig from above. This requires no tools to check.

If the bases are level and parallel to the long axis of the rifle and barrel and it shoots way off to the left then the barrel could be bent or the bore could be crooked relative to the outside of the barrel.

It would help to know more about who drilled the action, the barrel, who made the base(s) and when it all happened. The problem could be at the action or in the base itself.
 
henrya said:
"The person who made the base said the barrel might be canted. "


It would help to know more about who drilled the action, the barrel, who made the base(s) and when it all happened. The problem could be at the action or in the base itself.
Click to expand...

If this is one of those great "let the muzzle flop" chambered barrels it could be a clocking problem. i.e. The maximum runout at the muzzle could be pointed to the side (3 or 9 o'clock) instead of up (12 o'clock).
 
My inexperienced gunsmith just told me the front base had a gap or space between it and the barrel and wasn't level. When I ordered the new Posa-notched base I assumed it was the right one since I specified the rifle and scope. Anyhow, he asked about honing the base to make it fit.

He didn't say anything about checking for straightness.

It is a pre-64 M70 so I assumed the factory drilled the holes since it is the original barrel. I ordered the front base with the scopt for that model.



Should I do that or try a different base?
 
REA said:
My UltraVarmint doesn't have much windage correction left on one side after centering the group at 200 yards. It has an extended rear base.

The person who made the base said the barrel might be canted. How can I check for this? If the barrel needs to be adjusted would the threads have to be altered or something like that? Thank you.
Click to expand...

one way would be to get a straight edge between the 2 bases and putting a level on that and on the bolt itself, another thing to look for is once the strait edge is on both scope mounts is it sitting flat on both if not they are not flat with each other, as far as the barrel being straight with the scope mounts i suggest this go to menards or home depot and get one of those lasers that shoot a straight line on the wall, line it up above the action and the laser with the edge of the scope mount holes( guessing at the centers would be tuff) then see if it lines up with the barrel the laser should go straight down the barrel. do both sides of the holes and compare the difference.
 
OK, the first post seemed to be about the bases being "level." Since I don't really know what this means, I went elsewhere with my answer.

Now we seem to be checking alignment. May I suggest a set of Kokopelli alignment bars? http://www.kokopelliproducts.com/scopeb.html

These are quite simply the best and only way to really KNOW whether or not your rings and bases are properly aligned with each other. There are no substitutes other than home-ade. They work because they're square-ended. The concept is patented and attempts by other mfgrs to make "alignment bars" without infringement on this patent are a hopeless failure. One lowlife has even gone so far as to market pointy tools with a square "outside end" and instructions to "turn the bars around and use them backwards as another way of checking...."

Maybe I've gone off track from the OP but I'm really a proponent of the Kokopelli system. I have nothing to gain from this but John Werre is a nice man with nice products.

al
 
Here's what Steve Earl had to say :

Hi Bob -

A canted base indicates that either the holes aren't straight in the barrel (which neither honing nor a new base would fix) or that the holes in the base are crooked, which a new base would fix. A canted base can throw the windage out to the side, sometimes by quite a bit.

If the holes in the barrel are crooked, there are two options. First, you can put in new holes which are straight, and plug or just not use the old holes. Second, you can have a custom block made, with crooked holes to match the barrel holes. This is an aggravating and time-consuming (read, expensive) way out of it, but it can usually be done. It requires the careful measuring of the crookedness of the existing holes, including both sideways and angular displacements, then drilling matching holes in a blank block. I would estimate this to be a $100-200 job.

Honing the base to fit the barrel will reduce or eliminate the gap, but that may not be the whole problem.

Steve


So I need to figure out if the base holes are straight.
 
I thought Winchester only tapped the target, and varmint models' for external scope mount bases'. What model do you have? If you need to replace the base, ( bases), by carefull placement the new location will leave the base to cover the old holes'.
 
It is the target model. The external mount Vulture scopes will work on the receiver. I'm not planning on drilling new holes.
 
The Vulture was really a nice looking old scope, it was one of my favorites on a varmint rifle. I really think you simply have a base problem. I had quite a number of the Winchester, and target models' over the years'. I never had a problem with the Unertl scopes. I agree, don't drill any holes', just find the proper bases'. I don't know his address, but there was a man down in Texas named Gary Fellers that dealt in Unertl scopes. The last address I have on Unertl scopes' is 1224 Freedom Rd. Mars, Pa. 16046
 
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another option might be to get a 1 piece base i had a similar problem with my mauser i hit 0 but the scope windage was adjust almost completly to the left, i put on a one piece base and it straightened it right out.
 
Some of y'all are missing the point because you are confused about what the scope looks like.
Here is a photo showing a similar but earlier and physically smaller Unertl scope on a Springfield.

I don't think anyone here can fix this over the internet. You need to find a good gunsmith who knows about older rifles and scopes and let him fix it for you.
 

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The scope in the photo is a 1 1/2" target model. It has a 3/4" main tube with a 1.5" objective. This scope is much longer than the Vulture and is mounted to both the action, and the barrel. The Vulture was considered a varmint scope, and came only in 8, and 10 power. It is a much shorter scope, and can be mounted on the action only. It also had a 1" main tube. The proper bases' from Unertl will solve the problem. I once had all of the models' of the Unertl scopes. The one I did not have was the 100 mm team spotting scope.
 
henrya said:
Some of y'all are missing the point because you are confused about what the scope looks like.
Here is a photo showing a similar but earlier and physically smaller Unertl scope on a Springfield.

I don't think anyone here can fix this over the internet. You need to find a good gunsmith who knows about older rifles and scopes and let him fix it for you.
Click to expand...

WOW i guess so but the my laser idea might still work for checking straightness levelon the other hand is going to require much more work
 
B. Johnson,
The original poster is asking about an Ultra Varmint not a Vulture.

REA,
If its an original and unmodified M70 rifle the problem is likely with the scope blocks. Get the rifle to a good gunsmith who knows this older stuff. I don't think you have found him yet.
 
I don't know how I let Vulture slip in there. The ultra-varmint whould have one base on the barrel. He does not need a gunsmith! The proper bases, and a screw driver will do the job.
 
What you really, really, REALLY NEED to do is........

take the rifle and put it in a vise, then, take a really nice, screw-slot filling screwdriver and remove the screws holding both offending blocks onto the barrel, and remove said blocks. :eek:

Then, and ONLY then, take a couple 6-48 taps, and run them down in the holes, (because, IF they are the original factory-drilled holes they WILL BE 6-48)
THEN and ONLY THEN will you be able to look down that barrel, and EYEBALL those two taps and SEE if both are in line, if one or the other is crooked, or, if one leans one way, and the other the opposite way, or, Lord help us, if they both are in line, but leaning any way but vertical. repeat for all holes :mad: Actually, you can put taps in all the holes simultaneously, if you have enough taps, and check ALL the holes at once.

And NO, do not try to use Cock-o-rootie alignment barrels, or bulbs, or bubbies, on an externally-adjustable, Unertl target-type (long, with recoil-spring and clamp, and HORNED, or DE-horny, mounts :D) scope, as they aren't compatible.

Oh yes, the things you attach those long scopes to, are/were typically called BLOCKS, not bases, which may have contributed to the original confusion. However, I wouldn't gig you on that, because those type scopes have been out of vogue for quite a few years.

(Innernet fix by:

Brian.

Reason:

CLUSTER--&*U^&TY(*&(%^*$#&%^&G)

Please follow these instructions, and they WILL work :cool: HTH
 
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