High-BC .277 bullets exist?
- Thread starter Mirage416
- Start date
J
J. Valentine
Guest
I think what you are seeing is the fact that .277 cal is not a recognised target caliber and as a result the range and type of projectiles is reduced as compared to other more popular calibers.
6.5 (.264) is a popular caliber and is used as a target caliber in Europe.
7mm (284) has been around a long time in many countries and in many cartridges , the range of projectiles available is better than .277 as some custom makers dont even make .277 bullets.
As far as your BC comparison goes a 180 grain 7mm bullet is usually a VLD type and requires the correct twist barrel.
In the .277 bullet to make one at 170 grain might be pushing your luck a bit as far as twist rate goes in the average 270 rifle it would be quite long especially in a high BC bullet .
The bullet manufacturers don't see the 270 cal as a platform for custom barrels and twists the same as they see the .308 , 6.5 & 7mm.
Just buying long jackets to make heavy 270 cal is difficult.
I mean why did the .243W survive and the 6mm Rem died?
When the 6mm Rem was the better cartridge.
Supply and demand. If the manufacturers cant see the sales they will not make the product.
If one product is marketed better than the other , it will survive and the other will be the poor cousin.
The 270 is a fine caliber but it is just not used enough accross the whole market.
6.5 (.264) is a popular caliber and is used as a target caliber in Europe.
7mm (284) has been around a long time in many countries and in many cartridges , the range of projectiles available is better than .277 as some custom makers dont even make .277 bullets.
As far as your BC comparison goes a 180 grain 7mm bullet is usually a VLD type and requires the correct twist barrel.
In the .277 bullet to make one at 170 grain might be pushing your luck a bit as far as twist rate goes in the average 270 rifle it would be quite long especially in a high BC bullet .
The bullet manufacturers don't see the 270 cal as a platform for custom barrels and twists the same as they see the .308 , 6.5 & 7mm.
Just buying long jackets to make heavy 270 cal is difficult.
I mean why did the .243W survive and the 6mm Rem died?
When the 6mm Rem was the better cartridge.
Supply and demand. If the manufacturers cant see the sales they will not make the product.
If one product is marketed better than the other , it will survive and the other will be the poor cousin.
The 270 is a fine caliber but it is just not used enough accross the whole market.
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I knew the demand wasn't as great for the .277, but I assumed that Berger, selling to people often with custom twist rates or barrels, would go with heavier .277 bullets to offer...at least a 160gr. This would fill the 6.5-7mm gap quite nicely it would appear.
I'll admit, though, that it is really my current issue which created this question.
I can't decide whether to take the 270 case up to 7mm, or down to 6.5mm, to shoot the better bullets.
I'll admit, though, that it is really my current issue which created this question.
I can't decide whether to take the 270 case up to 7mm, or down to 6.5mm, to shoot the better bullets.
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I knew the demand wasn't as great for the .277, but I assumed that Berger, selling to people often with custom twist rates or barrels, would go with heavier .277 bullets to offer...at least a 160gr. This would fill the 6.5-7mm gap quite nicely it would appear.
I'll admit, though, that it is really my current issue which created this question.
I personally see no need to fill the "gap" between 6.5mm and 7mm. It aint that big a gap.
J
J. Valentine
Guest
Mirage416 . What is the twist rate in your present 270 barrel?
Berger has a 150 grain VLD that they say will stabalise in a 1 in 10 twist.
http://www.bergerbullets.com/
Berger has a 150 grain VLD that they say will stabalise in a 1 in 10 twist.
http://www.bergerbullets.com/
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B
bsl135
Guest
As the designer of Berger's line of .277 bullets, I think I can offer some insight here, or rather, add to some things that have already been said.
Most of the following observations about the .270 caliber are true for .257 also, for the same reasons.
Hal D points out that "it aint that big a gap" (between .264 and .284). That's one very good reason people rarely are compelled to explore the .277 caliber for target shooting.
As J. Valentine points out:
"I think what you are seeing is the fact that .277 cal is not a recognised target caliber..."
What the .277 caliber is mostly known as is a hunting caliber. A very strong majority of rifles with .277 caliber barrels are factory hunting rifles with 1:10" twist barrels, so the Berger VLD's were designed to work for those rifles.
This isn't the first time that a request for heavier .277 caliber bullets has surfaced. Apparently not all .277 caliber shooters are willing to confine themselves to factory 1:10" twist barrels, and that's a good thing. In time, we will respond to this requirement, but there are many other irons in the fire, fish to fry, etc so it's not gonna be soon. When it does happen, you can expect something around 165 grains.
-Bryan
Most of the following observations about the .270 caliber are true for .257 also, for the same reasons.
Hal D points out that "it aint that big a gap" (between .264 and .284). That's one very good reason people rarely are compelled to explore the .277 caliber for target shooting.
As J. Valentine points out:
"I think what you are seeing is the fact that .277 cal is not a recognised target caliber..."
What the .277 caliber is mostly known as is a hunting caliber. A very strong majority of rifles with .277 caliber barrels are factory hunting rifles with 1:10" twist barrels, so the Berger VLD's were designed to work for those rifles.
This isn't the first time that a request for heavier .277 caliber bullets has surfaced. Apparently not all .277 caliber shooters are willing to confine themselves to factory 1:10" twist barrels, and that's a good thing. In time, we will respond to this requirement, but there are many other irons in the fire, fish to fry, etc so it's not gonna be soon. When it does happen, you can expect something around 165 grains.
-Bryan
L
Louis Boyd
Guest
It's a chicken and egg. No one's willing to make the first step of either making commercial hgih BC bullets or commercial rifles in .277 to shoot them.
This table may explain why there's little demand:
Diameter ratio between the more popular target and varminting bullets:
172 to 204 - 1.186
204 to 223 - 1.093
224 to 243 - 1.085
243 to 264 - 1.086
264 to 284 - 1.076
284 to 308 - 1.085
308 to 338 - 1.097
There's more argument for a bullet size between ANY of those steps then there is between 6.5 and the 7mm since it's the smallest jump. The 257 suffers a similar problem as the 277. It's just too close to it's neighbors. This also may account for the lack of development of 8mm (.323) target bullets even though there are some good cartridges. Until recently there was a big enough gap for Ruger to successfully fill the gap between the 17s and 22s with the 204. Considering the popularity of the 6.5 and 7mm commercial market what's the incentive of making both a new cartridge and bullet in .277? I don't think the 30-06 based 270 Win would offer a lot for target shooting even with a .66 BC VLD boattail. No more than 6.5-06 or the 280 Rem have dominated target competition.
This table may explain why there's little demand:
Diameter ratio between the more popular target and varminting bullets:
172 to 204 - 1.186
204 to 223 - 1.093
224 to 243 - 1.085
243 to 264 - 1.086
264 to 284 - 1.076
284 to 308 - 1.085
308 to 338 - 1.097
There's more argument for a bullet size between ANY of those steps then there is between 6.5 and the 7mm since it's the smallest jump. The 257 suffers a similar problem as the 277. It's just too close to it's neighbors. This also may account for the lack of development of 8mm (.323) target bullets even though there are some good cartridges. Until recently there was a big enough gap for Ruger to successfully fill the gap between the 17s and 22s with the 204. Considering the popularity of the 6.5 and 7mm commercial market what's the incentive of making both a new cartridge and bullet in .277? I don't think the 30-06 based 270 Win would offer a lot for target shooting even with a .66 BC VLD boattail. No more than 6.5-06 or the 280 Rem have dominated target competition.
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270s
Hi , We have had a new guy come to our 1000yd Benchrest range this year with a 270 , he shot most of the year..Being a rookie and having a 270 + shootin Heavy Gun i reckon he did real good, 10inch / 10shot groups and low 90 scores in the 1st season ..He has told me that the 135 Smk is the only projectile thats worth considering ,some of the new to the market heavier VLD bullets were not at all successfull unless you were load testing at a 100yd..JR..Jeff Rogers
Hi , We have had a new guy come to our 1000yd Benchrest range this year with a 270 , he shot most of the year..Being a rookie and having a 270 + shootin Heavy Gun i reckon he did real good, 10inch / 10shot groups and low 90 scores in the 1st season ..He has told me that the 135 Smk is the only projectile thats worth considering ,some of the new to the market heavier VLD bullets were not at all successfull unless you were load testing at a 100yd..JR..Jeff Rogers
brian roberts
New member
There ARE 170grnrs in 277......
Speer or Sierra makes them, or did(I should have checked first), are you hunting or target shooting??? You may want to loook at the Sierra 150.
Speer or Sierra makes them, or did(I should have checked first), are you hunting or target shooting??? You may want to loook at the Sierra 150.
A
alpacca45
Guest
Trouble is, the heavies in .277 (which i've seen) tend to be pretty high drag, and intended to make the .270 more effective on heavier animals at moderate range, rather than into a 1000 yard+ target number.
I'm in Ireland, and .270 is the largest calibre civillians are legally allowed to have (there's only about 4M people in the Republic, so it won't make much of a market
) and I'm looking at getting a second barrel for my .308, so I can use it here. .270/08 would be my first choice.
goodgrouper
tryingtobeabettergrouper
There are high bc VLD type .277" bullets in the 170 grain range--well they are 169.5 grains so it's close. They're called Wildcat Bullets made in Elko, NV. They have a bc in the upper .7 class and I have shot many of them. They work work fine so long as you can get a fast twist .277" barrel and that is the trick with this caliber! Oh yeah, they don't like 3 groove barrels either.
jackie schmidt
New member
J Valentine
Ah, the .243 vs the 6mm. I don't know your age, but I am old enough to remember the lamenting and knashing of teeth from writers wondering why shooters didn't recognize the .243 calibers real role, that as a Varminter.
But Middle America wanted to hunt deer with them, and that 1-12 twist that Remington insisted on barreling the originol 6mm Rem, (240) it just would not handle the 90+ grn bullets that deer hunters liked.
Even when Remington ammended its ways, (even changed the name), nobody cared. Winchester won the battle. Every major manufacturer offers Rifles chamberd in that pug nosed little .243
But Remington got them back. When Winchester introduced the .264 Magnum, it was touted as the fastest, flatest shooting thing ever. The only problem was they did all the Factory testing in 28+ inch barrels. Well, nobody wanted to lug that around, and what shooters who actually owned Chronographs, (and of course, magazine writers), found that "the fastest and flatest" left a lot on the table when shooters opted for tubes that were more manageable in the field.
In the mean time, Big Green was watching all of this, and behind a REALLY aggresive add campain, (magazines love those big full page adds), brought out what was nothing more than a .264 necked up to 7mm. Of course, everybody went GaGa, and the 7mm Remington Mag became, and still is, one of the all time popular chamberings. The 264 was relagated to the backpage of ballistics.
Of course, if the 7mm Rem Mag was brought out now, the first thing we would all do is neck it down to .264 and call it the "fastest and flatest shooting thing ever". And all it would be is a 264 Winchester Mag.........jackie
Ah, the .243 vs the 6mm. I don't know your age, but I am old enough to remember the lamenting and knashing of teeth from writers wondering why shooters didn't recognize the .243 calibers real role, that as a Varminter.
But Middle America wanted to hunt deer with them, and that 1-12 twist that Remington insisted on barreling the originol 6mm Rem, (240) it just would not handle the 90+ grn bullets that deer hunters liked.
Even when Remington ammended its ways, (even changed the name), nobody cared. Winchester won the battle. Every major manufacturer offers Rifles chamberd in that pug nosed little .243
But Remington got them back. When Winchester introduced the .264 Magnum, it was touted as the fastest, flatest shooting thing ever. The only problem was they did all the Factory testing in 28+ inch barrels. Well, nobody wanted to lug that around, and what shooters who actually owned Chronographs, (and of course, magazine writers), found that "the fastest and flatest" left a lot on the table when shooters opted for tubes that were more manageable in the field.
In the mean time, Big Green was watching all of this, and behind a REALLY aggresive add campain, (magazines love those big full page adds), brought out what was nothing more than a .264 necked up to 7mm. Of course, everybody went GaGa, and the 7mm Remington Mag became, and still is, one of the all time popular chamberings. The 264 was relagated to the backpage of ballistics.
Of course, if the 7mm Rem Mag was brought out now, the first thing we would all do is neck it down to .264 and call it the "fastest and flatest shooting thing ever". And all it would be is a 264 Winchester Mag.
........jackie
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F
ForneyRider
Guest
Berger makes 130gr, 140gr, 150gr bullets for .277. Although, I think they are the Hunting VLD's.
Sierra makes a 135gr MK.
That's it as far as "match" bullets I have found.
270 Win, 270 WSM, 270 Weatherby, and 6.8SPC are the only .277 I know of.
270 Win - 130gr 3200fps Hornady, although 3100fps is more common.
270 WSM and Weatherby - 130gr 3400fps(load data) or 3300fps factory rated.
6.8SPC - Hornady makes V-Max or A-Max. Silverstate armory makes 110gr Accubond that is supposed to be very accurate factory load.
Nosler makes a 160gr Nosler Partition. It is the heaviest of the .277's, AFAIK. But the Partition is not known for it's BC.
Sierra makes a 135gr MK.
That's it as far as "match" bullets I have found.
270 Win, 270 WSM, 270 Weatherby, and 6.8SPC are the only .277 I know of.
270 Win - 130gr 3200fps Hornady, although 3100fps is more common.
270 WSM and Weatherby - 130gr 3400fps(load data) or 3300fps factory rated.
6.8SPC - Hornady makes V-Max or A-Max. Silverstate armory makes 110gr Accubond that is supposed to be very accurate factory load.
Nosler makes a 160gr Nosler Partition. It is the heaviest of the .277's, AFAIK. But the Partition is not known for it's BC.