Head Space?

R

ricky5042

New member
Hi all how do I check my head space without a gauge? I ask because when up the club one of the guys said the problem iv been getting with the head separation is because of the head space and not the brass! can anyone shed any light on this please.
He said if I can get 2 bits of selotape on the back of the shell and still close the bolt then my head space is wrong and that's why the shell are separating! I got 2 on and I felt a bit of resistance and a lot of resistance with 3 on the back of the case.


Rick
 
You may just have your resizing die set wrong. What Caliber are you referring to and what are you using for a full length sizing die? The tape test is pretty basic but I think this person told you pretty much right. It does not necessarily mean you have a headspace problem with your rifle, unless you are talking factory loads. If you are getting case head separations with Factory loads you probably do indeed have a headspace problem.
Dick
 
Hi I realise the tape thing is not a good way to check it but it was the guy at the range who said my head space was wrong and to try it! the rifle has only fired 550 rounds since new I am the first owner its a howa 1500 in 308 the shells im reloading are lapua from a friend who shoots to 1000 yards so his loads were worked up to 2900fps so quiet hot and the brass he reloaded 12 to 14 times and iv reloaded them twice, iv checked some ppu ammo I fired and they show no sign of splitting!
I have an rcbs die which is set 1/8 turn over because the shells wouldn't cycle in my rifle without full length sizing.

Rick
 
I am not sure what you are refering to "1/8 turn over".
Screwing the die 1/8 turn moves it 0.009 in or out.
All tape is not the same thickness. Measure it. Kenny
 
ricky5042 said:
Hi all how do I check my head space without a gauge? I ask because when up the club one of the guys said the problem iv been getting with the head separation is because of the head space and not the brass! can anyone shed any light on this please.
He said if I can get 2 bits of selotape on the back of the shell and still close the bolt then my head space is wrong and that's why the shell are separating! I got 2 on and I felt a bit of resistance and a lot of resistance with 3 on the back of the case. Rick
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Watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KICBv-0U87Y I believe Gordy uses one piece of cellophane tape. :)
 
Make sure your decapping pin isn't bottoming out on the case. I was guilty of this recently and was wondering why the shoulder wasn't being pushed back as I kept adjusting the die. The really sad part is that I did this the first time 3 or 4 years ago and forgot it. :(
 
ricky5042 said:
he reloaded 12 to 14 times and iv reloaded them twice
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Rick
You are absolutely pushing the shoulder back too far. His 12 to 14 firings have not hurt the cases as much as your 2 firings. If you push the shoulder back more than .001" to .002" you will have this problem, each time you fire the brass it stretches back to the size of your chamber and it does not stretch uniformly it stretches right at the web of the case. Stretch it 5 or 6 thousandths and it gets thin and separates if not on the first firing on the second or third. I have been there and done that. You need to measure from the shoulder to the head of the case and make sure you are not pushing it more than .001" , or .002" maximum. You will need some sort of beveled bushing to put on shoulder to give you a surface to measure to. If you have no other device available back the die off 1/8 turn and you should do better.
 
adamsgt said:
Make sure your decapping pin isn't bottoming out on the case. I was guilty of this recently and was wondering why the shoulder wasn't being pushed back as I kept adjusting the die. The really sad part is that I did this the first time 3 or 4 years ago and forgot it. :(
Click to expand...

Today, when I really want to remember something, I write it down using my Word program, then stick it in my "General Info" folder located within "My Documents" system folder [I hope I said that correctly]. Works like a charm. :)
 
Ricky,
We all have to start somewhere. No one is born knowing this stuff, and sometimes we run into people that think they know more than they actually do, and they send us off in the wrong direction. I think that this happened to you. The first time that a case is fired in a particular rifle, the shoulder is blown out to a pretty close fit to that chamber, and if you set your FL die PROPERLY (which you evidently do not yet know how to do) FL sized cases will only have their shoulders set back .001 to .002, and truthfully, if the ammunition went in easy, you can set the die so that the shoulder is in the same position as the fired case, and it should work fine. You will notice that I did not make reference to turns of the die, but rather in thousandths of an inch, which would imply that some sort of accurate measuring device was used. Hornady sells one, that they somewhat incorrectly call a headspace gauge, that is designed to be used in conjunction with a caliper, either dial or digital to measure the shoulder to read dimension of fired and sized cases so that FL dies can be accurately set for the proper amount of shoulder bump. The separations that you are getting are most likely the result of the way that you are setting your FL die, which is in fact dead wrong. Not to worry, we all are in the process of learning different things, and you can easily learn to set your die, if you can follow simple instructions, and reading your question, it is obvious that you have the right stuff to get that done.
 
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Boyd Allen said:
Ricky,
We all have to start somewhere. No one is born knowing this stuff, and sometimes we run into people that think they know more than they actually do, and they send us off in the wrong direction. I think that this happened to you. The first time that a case is fired in a particular rifle, the shoulder is blown out to a pretty close fit to that chamber, and if you set your FL die PROPERLY (which you evidently do not yet know how to do) FL sized cases will only have their shoulders set back .001 to .002, and truthfully, if the ammunition went in easy, you can set the die so that the shoulder is in the same position as the fired case, and it should work fine. You will notice that I did not make reference to turns of the die, but rather in thousandths of an inch, which would imply that some sort of accurate measuring device was used. Hornady sells one, that they somewhat incorrectly call a Headspace gauge, that is designed to be used in conjunction with a caliper, either dial or digital to measure the shoulder to head dimension of fired and sized cases so that FL dies can be accurately set for the proper amount of shoulder bump. The separations that you are getting are most likely the result of the way that you are setting your FL die, which is in fact dead wrong. Not to worry, we all are in the process of learning different things, and you can easily learn to set your die, if you can follow simple instructions, and reading your question, it is obvious that you have the right stuff to get that done.
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Hi thanks for that Boyd I got a couple of 308 dies from a friend yesterday so im going to use one of them and set it as it should be so I don't get the same problem again, I will see if I can measure the shoulder with the comparator I have and if not il have to get the head space gauge.
Thanks

Rick
 
ricky5042 said:
Hi thanks for that Boyd I got a couple of 308 dies from a friend yesterday so im going to use one of them and set it as it should be so I don't get the same problem again, I will see if I can measure the shoulder with the comparator I have and if not il have to get the head space gauge.
Thanks

Rick
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Ricky,

Using a headspace gauge is not going to help you. You need to use the rifle's chamber to set the FL die correctly. Listen to what the other posters have offered. Remove the firing pin from your bolt. Use the bolt to determine where the FL die needs to be set. Adjust the die so that the bolt will close with a VERY SLIGHT bit of resistance at the bottom. Then lock the die down - that is where you want to be. Presto! All done.

Matt
 
Hi Matt im going to give it a go tomorrow and see how I get on, the 2 lee dies I have neither of them have FL on them so im not sure if they are full length dies so im going to try them both and see if the result is the same.

Rick
 
ricky5042 said:
Hi Matt im going to give it a go tomorrow and see how I get on, the 2 lee dies I have neither of them have FL on them so im not sure if they are full length dies so im going to try them both and see if the result is the same. Rick
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Here's a picture of a Lee two die set: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/738184/lee-rgb-2-die-set-308-winchester

The first one, is a Bullet Seating Die the second one, with the decapping pin sticking out, is the Full Length Sizing Die.

How many of the two dies you mention above have a decapping pin protruding?

A good quality Full Length Sizing Die with bushing capability, and a good quality Bullet Seating Die are all you'll ever need.

Stay away from the neck sizing die and a body sizing die. Those two variants will get you into big trouble, real fast. :)
 
abintx said:
Here's a picture of a Lee two die set: http://www.midwayusa.com/product/738184/lee-rgb-2-die-set-308-winchester

The first one, is a Bullet Seating Die the second one, with the decapping pin sticking out, is the Full Length Sizing Die.

How many of the two dies you mention above have a decapping pin protruding?

A good quality Full Length Sizing Die with bushing capability, and a good quality Bullet Seating Die are all you'll ever need.

Stay away from the neck sizing die and a body sizing die. Those two variants will get you into big trouble, real fast. :)
Click to expand...


Hi I got 2 sets of lee dies so I have 2 with pins sizing dies 2 seating dies and 2 crimp dies but my lee dies for the 223 have FL on the de capping sizing die but the 2 iv just picked up don't so im not sure if they are full length or just neck sizing dies, oh iv been advised to neck size to save over working the brass and once fire formed they told me I would only need to neck size.

Rick
 
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