Hand dies vs. 7/8 x14

D

D.Dascher

Guest
Hello all,thank you for the replys to the post about changeing barrells in the field.I have one more novice question I hope you can help me with.
What advantage do you have with Hand Dies and a Arbor Press,instead of useing a standered 7/8x14 Dies and Press?
Thank all of you again for your time and help.Dee.
 
Dasher

As you might know, the vast majority of Benchrest Shooters use some type of hand die and a arbor press. There are a few who use dies such as Redding.

The confusion comes into play when shooters use the different types of dies that are used in a 7/8-14 press.

The Redding Dies, under close examination, are not the same as a standard die that is used by many handloaders. In the redding system, all the press does is furnish the "horsepower" to insert the case and remove it.

That sliding sleeve assy is exactly the same thing as a hand die. The case is completly encased in the sleeve and supported before any of the functions, such as seating the bullet, or sizing the neck, occur.

The trick to making Redding Dies work is to use a press that has a generous amount of clearance in the ram. In other words, you let the dies do the work, with no fear of binding.

Shooters will look at the three little RCBS Partner Presses I have lined up on my loading bench and say, "there is no way'. But, the system I use produces rounds that will run out no more than .001. All the press does is furnish the power to insert the case and remove it.

But, all of that being said, the Hand Die is the standard when it comes to extreme accuracy. There are die makers who can furnish you a hand die that fits the case out of your sizing die perfectly. They can also furnish you a sizing die that fits the case out of your chamber perfectly.

Go back to the advertising bar on the left side of the home page. You will see the ads for the various makers. It will take a little effort getting it right, but in the end, you will have a die set that gives you complete confidence that it is doing what it is suppose to do,that being, making straight rounds, consistant in all aspects.........jackie
 
Hello all,thank you for the replys to the post about changeing barrells in the field.I have one more novice question I hope you can help me with.
What advantage do you have with Hand Dies and a Arbor Press,instead of useing a standered 7/8x14 Dies and Press?
Thank all of you again for your time and help.Dee.

OK,

I'm going to start from scratch here...... none of this reflects on Jackie's comments.

First of all, let it be noted that the term "dies" encompasses two separate and distinct operations. #1 is prep'ing the case to be reloaded and #2 is seating the bullet to finish the reloading process. I'll approach each die separately because there's a lot to consider.

Of course a lot of this will be overly simplistic and repetitive but there are many folks reading these posts.

#1- the resizing die. ("sizer")

"Sizing" or resizing is a broad term that refers to the process by which the fired case is brought back down in size for reuse. The sizing operation is critical to making straight and well-fitted ammunition. This is NOT a simple straightforward operation. 4 distinct areas need be approached for proper resizing, the neck, the shoulder and the body at both the shoulder and base. There are 3 common types of resizing die, each of them performing differently, and a 4th less common.

-First is the factory full length sizing die with 7/8 X 14" threads. This die does it all, it hits the neck shoulder and entire body of the case. Problem is, it hits it TOO HARD. It not only ruins the brass quickly but it ensures that you will never realize the full accuracy potential of the rig. Factory FL dies are completely useless to the accuracy minded shooter EXCEPT that you "can" buy a die and have your chamber reamer ground to fit it as long as you're willing to live with a tight chamber. Generally fine accuracy may be realized using this method. (Note that FIT is more important than "straight" IMO. the loaded round must closely FIT the chamber its being used in otherwise "straightness" is useless.)

-Second is the hand die or "neck-size-only" die. This die is used "by hand" using a small hammer or with an arbor press. While maintaining the accuracy capability of the firearm this method does have some drawbacks. The chief drawback is that brass gets tight over repeated firings and the hand die cannot full length resize. For competitive shooting the overly tight brass will ruin your bag setup and consequently your aggregate scores will suffer. This die style used to rule the roost but has fallen from favor due to this lack of ability to resize.

-And third is the FITTED full length resizing die. This is the absolute answer for straight loads and long lasting brass cases. In fact this is the only REAL answer to the conundrum of long-term accuracy. With a custom-fitted FL die you get it all.... these dies are threaded to be used with a conventional press.

-And then there is the monstrosity known as a "bump die" which is made using your chambering reamer and a die blank. The purported use of this thing is to lightly "bump" the shoulder back just a thou or two while resizing the neck. In fact this die will cause you no end of grief..... just say NO! to bump dies.



And now we move on to seating dies. I haven't much to say about them. IMO any type or style of seating die can and will produce straight ammunition. I won't rate one style over another except to say that I myself like small hand dies in the original Wilson style because they're handy, light and easy to use. I generally use them with an arbor press. Threaded seaters are equally accurate. Don't waste any time worrying about the "straightness" of your press.




In short, I most gener'lish resize with a threaded press using fitted dies and seat my bullets using a Wilson style hand die and an arbor press. If I had to have only one I would give up the arbor press and keep the threaded one. The threaded one does it all.




opinionsby



al
 
Being me - - - - -

I pretty much rejected the Arbor Press and Hand dies in the beginning of my Benchrest Career and perhaps for a different reason. I have never wanted to carry half of my reloading room to the range and try to make good ammo with friends and some pests hanging around to chat while I was trying to do the most important thing I had to do that day. I chose to make hundreds of cases and load at home.

On this trip to Iowa, I up-rooted my big 7 hole Texan press and bolted to the shelf in my minivan. I did reload at the range in Iowa but after the day's events were over and with my MACHINE with the best threaded dies I can lay my hands on, namely 3 Neil Jones sizing dies and 3 Forster Ultra seating dies with sliding sleves made with the reamer that made the chambers in my rifles. I can easily set all of those dies to give me the sholder bump I want and to give me an EXACT seating depth. It can't get any easier.

I also have a "Range Box" with Wilson Dies and sizing dies but I loath using them. I use them when I am tesing unknown powder or a new barrel at the range. When I truly want to know what I am doing, I load my test rounds at home with good notes to accompany them so I KNOW what I am doing. It surprises me that most people don't go that extra step to make sure they can make the very best ammo possible. They are 98% there!

Oh, and I also brought my Chargemaster and found a quiet corner.

Now, If only, I could learn to shoot!
 
Al,
I did a test comparing runout of loaded rounds for my tight necked 6PPC, with flat base bullets, and a fair amount of neck tension (worst case). The Hornady seater gave twice the runout that my custom arbor press seater did. There are other issues. I have seen where a popular brand of press die seater, set up the way that the manufacturer recommended, produced more ogive too case head variance than is typical with an arbor press die. This is not to challenge anything that you said about the importance of a proper FL die. You are spot on on that. Bottom line, the seater can't fix what the sizer does, but it can make it worse. On the other hand, boat tail bullets, with minimal neck tension, are much easier to get good results with.
Boyd
 
Back
Top