gunsmith excersise.....

[mike in co]

a couple of weeks ago i actually had a weekend off..was bored and want to produce something....
the begining subject was a 1939 mosin nagant 91/30 7.62x54r 29" bbl $99 milsurplus rifle from big 5....( over 20 MILLION made)

i have played with these in the past, so had some parts laying around.....the challenge had been started by a collector that proposed that the mn rifle was a min of man rifle and all the work bubba did was not going to improve past the 2 to 3 moa range.... challenged accepted.

cleaned, rear sight removed, bbl cut to 24" recrowned, threaded for a brake, three lb trigger installed, stock shortened, re shapped, sanded, restained black, 6 coats of tung oil, bedded in bisionite steel. bbl floated, stud for sling/bipod added to fore stock, m1d cheek pad added, pu scope mount added to rifle( this is a modern version with a weaver rail instead of fixed rings), 6-18 nikon scope with target turrets.

the reason for picking this particular rifle was the bore...bright shinny baby butt smooth sharp crisp lands...

current mil ammo is called light ball aprox 147 gr or so..i picked hornady 150 spire points in 312 dia, moly coated, lapua brass, n135 powder tulammo lr primers.

long story short, at 2800 fps the 100yd group is 0.365"..........
(one five shot group for scope adjustment, 4 three shot groups for accuracy/load development. the 4th group was under an inch and at 2900fps, groups 2 and 3 were just over an inch and atleast one was operator error).
posted pic's of the target on the collector site..all six groups on one target......
the sixth 3 shot group was at 25yd while zeroing was around 1/4" so i was sure the gun had potential.

have not heard much from the collector and his buddies.....

anyone need a hunting rifle ?

mike in co

 

[Hambone]

Mike

You did all that over a 2 day week end.....

How are you with house painting?

 

[mike in co]

the basic gun was done over a two day weekend..(.i left out bending and extending the bolt handle and blueing /reblueing stuff)
the load developement was/is still spread out.
the tung oil was hand applied over about a weeks time.
nope, i don't do houses..not even mine....

mike in co

 

[mike in co]

pics.....

 

[mike in co]

target
six groups with load data....
group 1 five shots mix of 25 and 50 yds zeroing scope...2 shots in circle were first two cold...no big spacing liked that 2803 fps
group 2 3 shots .365 2821 fps
group 3 3shots i pulled one low 2859 fps
group 4 3 shots i pushed one left 2856 fps
group 5 3 shots 2998 fps....
inspite of 2 and 5 being very small, 3/4 have the same fps..and is probably a sweet spot that needs a look at.
in the lower right is a 3 shot group at 25 during sight in...all of about .28" done the week prior to the other five groups.

not bad for a $99 milsurplus 72yr old rifle....

 

[mwezell]

pics.....

I think you should write an article for PS magazine. Those pics on a BR forum gave me flasbacks to recent issues.

 

[Hal D.]

i think you should write an article for ps magazine. Those pics on a br forum gave me flasbacks to recent issues.

lol

 

[Hambone]

ugly. ugly , ugly

pics.....

Sure is an ugly SoB ain't it.

 

[mike in co]

I DO NOT DISAGREE AT ALL.

if you have seen some of the other mods to this family...looks can be improved.
the mag is shortened, and a conventenal trigger guard used...the bolt handle is moved back about an inch on the bolt body. there are some nice after market stocks...but no left handed stocks.......

but it do shoot.....

mike in co

Sure is an ugly SoB ain't it.

 

[Charles E]

The Unicode character 1F4A9 (hex) comes to mind...

 

[alinwa]

"but it do shoot"

yeahh, right



So mike, maybe you could do the same work on an Arisaka and on a Mexican small-ring '98 and COMPARE THE RESULTS!! Spend a few mo doing a load workup and accuracy comparison, graphing the results for a definitive answer and publishing your results........

somewhere else




ANYwhere not here....



al

 

[mike in co]

you have a problem with a $99 rifle that shoots hunting bullets at less than 1/2 moa ??

i cannot buy either of the two rifles you mentioned for $99.....
it does say gunsmithing...not br gunsmithing right ???

sorry i'm missing something here...
a bunch of you build rifles that are NOT br rifles, but hunting guns...and you whine at this ???
( i know this because you have posted about them...no one whined)
how about we handicap group size by dollars......
what do you sell a hunting rifle for ??? and what moa for those dollars ??
a half moa hunting rifle for $2500...is $500 per tenth moa.
my rifle is $150 per tenth moa..including the scope and mount, without it is $60 per tenth moa.
grow up.

mike in co

"but it do shoot"

yeahh, right



So mike, maybe you could do the same work on an Arisaka and on a Mexican small-ring '98 and COMPARE THE RESULTS!! Spend a few mo doing a load workup and accuracy comparison, graphing the results for a definitive answer and publishing your results........

somewhere else




ANYwhere not here....



al

 

[alinwa]

you have a problem with a $99 rifle that shoots hunting bullets at less than 1/2 moa ??

i cannot buy either of the two rifles you mentioned for $99.....
it does say gunsmithing...not br gunsmithing right ???

sorry i'm missing something here...
a bunch of you build rifles that are NOT br rifles, but hunting guns...and you whine at this ???
( i know this because you have posted about them...no one whined)
how about we handicap group size by dollars......
what do you sell a hunting rifle for ??? and what moa for those dollars ??
a half moa hunting rifle for $2500...is $500 per tenth moa.
my rifle is $150 per tenth moa..including the scope and mount, without it is $60 per tenth moa.
grow up.

mike in co

Uuuhhhhh,

YUP!

al

 

[mike in co]

and here i thought it was about accuracy not dollars...silly me......
so if not a custom action. and a name brand bbl bulit by a custom $$'smith it does not count no matter how well its shoots

silly me

mike in co

 

[alinwa]

Dude, you wanna' think that's "a half-inch rifle" that's your pejorative but you wanna' get pats on the back for making an antique military rifle shoot like, well, an antique military rifle, uummmmmmm nope.

Not here...

al

 

[mike in co]

SOME DAYS YOU ARE SO FULL OF SCHIT IT AINT FUNNY
did someone steal your private roast coffe this am ??
narrow minded lacking evidence opinion.
it aint a benchrest rifle..it does not have to ag five five shot groups to qualify....
two top name rifle makers shoot and make thier claims on three shot groups.....
show me your antique mil rifle with an original bbl that will shoot .365" with commercial hunting bullets with a 2012 cost of less than $600......
put up or shut up....
drink some more coffee,
i'm gonna pour a nice cold pepsi....
mike in co
ps
go read the original post.
the challenge was that the rifle could not be made to shoot better than 2-3moa....i have exceeded that by a bunch.

Dude, you wanna' think that's "a half-inch rifle" that's your pejorative but you wanna' get pats on the back for making an antique military rifle shoot like, well, an antique military rifle, uummmmmmm nope.

Not here...

al

 

[alinwa]

Who sez I don't believe you mike?? WHAT's to "believe?" You showed pictures and gave intimate descriptions..... and a "challenge" even..... you din't show pictures of anything even remotely approaching "half-inch accuracy" but then I guess that's another wormcan entirely....



"The Challenge" (((((Well now, maybe we're approaching my problem LOL....))))

What freakin' challenge? You come on with "A Challenge To Yourself" from some random gunshow guy to make some random battle rifle "Shoot Better Than 2-3moa,"

wheeeee,

you don't even hint as to what it shot like before you started "gunsmithing" on it.... ????

WHAT challenge?

So, I live in WA. We have slugs this time of year. I think I'll issue myself "A Challenge". . . !!

"I ALINWA do hereby CHALLENGE Me'sel' to THIS LEVEL..... I will propose to stomp 50 SLUGS PER DAY for the Weeks 24-30 June and 1-7 July." IF I EXCEED THIS NUMBER then I'll WIN!!

But I'll promise not to bore anyone here with the details....... wouldn't be prudent..........My results may be found over on Sluggers Heide under the screen name 'slugwakk'

ROCK ON!!

al

 

[mike in co]

one at a time...gun boards forum, collector mn rifles....three different times "collectors" made the statements min of man, best you can do is 2-3 moa...i have said the opposite several times, so decided to prove my point. like i have said, since posting the pics of the target..the collectors have been quiet.
read the whole thing before picking on part of a statement.

two....so a rifle that shoots .365" in load development is not "close" 1/2 moa rifle?? like i have said some days you are just full of schit.
how many groups under a half to i have to shoot ??? its a freaking hunting rifle not a br rifle...
when i get time i'll shoot some more groups.......
both items are clearly posted in the opening...but for some strange reason you have chosen to bad mouth my work....
so who pissed in your coffee mug this am ??

mike in co

Who sez I don't believe you mike?? WHAT's to "believe?" You showed pictures and gave intimate descriptions..... and a "challenge" even..... you din't show pictures of anything even remotely approaching "half-inch accuracy" but then I guess that's another wormcan entirely....





"The Challenge" (((((Well now, maybe we're approaching my problem LOL....))))

What freakin' challenge? You come on with "A Challenge To Yourself" from some random gunshow guy to make some random battle rifle "Shoot Better Than 2-3moa,"

wheeeee,

you don't even hint as to what it shot like before you started "gunsmithing" on it.... ????

WHAT challenge?

So, I live in WA. We have slugs this time of year. I think I'll issue myself "A Challenge". . . !!

"I ALINWA do hereby CHALLENGE Me'sel' to THIS LEVEL..... I will propose to stomp 50 SLUGS PER DAY for the Weeks 24-30 June and 1-7 July." IF I EXCEED THIS NUMBER then I'll WIN!!

But I'll promise not to bore anyone here with the details....... wouldn't be prudent..........My results may be found over on Sluggers Heide under the screen name 'slugwakk'

ROCK ON!!

al

 

[alinwa]

Dude, go shoot 5 groups in a row........... no "pushed" nor "pulled" nor "called" nor otherwise "'splained" shots............ just 5 groups in a row. They should all fit on a 3X5 recipe card.


Post a picture.

now, this is "what the rifle shot" on that given day. Do this a few times and you'll gain a growing sense of "what the rifle shoots."

Based on what you've shown in this thread, your hunner'dollar squeerellgun ain't no "half-inch rifle" by any standard of which I'm aware but if you wanna' think it WHO AM I TO SAY?

I guess it's "a half-inch rifle" to you by YOUR private method. Not here, but hey,

Yer happy......ecstatic even....

But I'm simply not with you. This is an accuracy forum. People come here to learn about ACCURACY not to see three bullets clumped together on a splatterboard being touted as "half-inch accuracy." I'm reasonably sure that most people posting on this board have gone through a time when they had targets that looked like that. Some probably even felt that they had a good group there, somewhere. I know I have. I've got a list of excuses as long as my dangling participle. I just try not to use them now.... I HAVE rifles that are "half-inch." And much better.

I say again, THAT AIN'T NO HALF-INCH RIFLE!!

I furthermore predict YOU'LL NEVER "FIND THE TIME" TO PROVE ME WRONG!!

ROTFLMAO

al

 

[mike in co]

al,
how many mosin nagant rifles have you shot ???
you keep bad mouthing the rifle, but my guess is you have no experience with them and have never owned one.
i have owned somewhere close to 40......currently own 5 or 6.
i shoot them in competition...100/200 yd mil matches and 100 yd benchrest matches.

so while you have unfounded opinions i have some facts to base my statements on.

how many 91/30 's have you shot ??
how many 27's have you shot ?
how many 28's have you shot ?
how many 28/30's have you shot ?
( this list could go on and on....the last snipers rifle built on these antique actions was in 76....)

none..no experience...but you still have an opinion...
maybe you shouid go read YOUR OWN COMMENTS IN THE SPOTTING SCOPE THREAD ON THE OTHER FORUM.....

mike in co
from the vortex scope thread in br
"The qualities of optics are quantifiable, and you generally get what you pay for. Also, like guns IF you get expert advice you WILL get repeatable results.

Get some opinions from FOLKS WHO TEST THIS STUFF. Unless someone like Fred Bohl does the testing all you're gonna' get is opinions. I'm not qualified to have an opinion on optics"