Gluing bag to a board?

A

alinwa

oft dis'd member
I've got some rocky and rolly older Protector bags that've been setting in Skip's rings for so long that they don't want to flatten out very well....... I've thought of permanently gluing them down onto a hunk of plywood maybe with a handle-hole and a spot for my arm bag. I would then glue a rubber pad onto the plywood.......

Are there any weird rules about this other than "not fastened to the bench" and "not fastened to the front rest"?

I remember the flap about hard-bottomed bags. From what I can find in the NBRSA rulebook it's unclear as to what constitutes "a bag". The IBS rules are no longer available on the website? and my rulebook is buried in a box somewhere.

Can I glue/staple/sew/tie or otherwise fasten a bag to a board??


al
 
Ok so I found the IBS rulebook on the site as well as my old one......it seems that the rule has been clarified such that now "the bottom 1" of the bag may be hard" under IBS rules, other than that the wording is eerily similar to the NBRSA definition.


Can I glue a bag to a board up to 1" thick or what?


al
 
From Tom Dunrud's site,


"if you are a competitive shooter in NBRSA registered matches then I must warn you that you may not be allowed to use it in your matches."


I showed up at the NBRSA sanctioned 600yd match and shot a couple rounds with a ping-pong paddle under my bag. Would this have been a problem for an official if I'd won something? I do use the protruding handle as a wobble-stick. I'm guessing that's a no-no?


(I put the paddle away guiltily)



al
 
alinwa said:
. . . I showed up at the NBRSA sanctioned 600yd match and shot a couple rounds with a ping-pong paddle under my bag. Would this have been a problem for an official if I'd won something? I do use the protruding handle as a wobble-stick. I'm guessing that's a no-no?. . . al
Click to expand...

Al

Rules for 600 and 1000 yard NBRSA are very lenient. The rear bag may be supported by an adjustable pedestal, so your ping-pong paddle was perfectly legal.

I'm still not sure about a board attached to the rear bag in Varmint tournaments. Somebody who understands the rule better than me needs to answer that one. There are many rear bags that have multiple layers of hard leather making up the bottom of the bag and it would be hard to argue that they are OK whereas a piece of wood is not. But, let someone else answer.

Ray
 
OK,


I guess "lenient" still leaves me hanging :) I'm specifically set up for 100-200 group and score, I'm currently trying to modify for 600yd just because group and score matches are few and far between here....... So my question is really about group and score shooting. I'm having trouble with the gator-bag concept as I'm developing a new left-handed shooting style and the bag gets in the way..... A bag on a board seems logical right now, AND available for experimentation.



BUT, :) back to the 600yd thing. It looks like that may be my venue for a while. If a rear bag for 600-1000 may be a pedestal can it be a coaxial? or a sliding plate? I've got a sliding plate rest drawn up with squeezable up and down shims and a lock...... Exactly how does one go about finding definition on this? I probably should post this part of the question on the thousand yard board but hey.... I'm here. I got all excited about 6mo ago regarding my "new rear bag holder" only to have someone who's currently shooting competitively tell me that it's definitely illegal for group and score. The sliding plate holder is less than an inch thick.


Thanks for your reply.


al
 
Al

For 600 and 1000 yard NBRSA your rear bag can be on a pedestal that is adjustable just about any way that you can dream up. Many of us do not really use a rear sandbag like you will find in point blank. Mine is actually an Owl Ear front bag set in a Sinclair Benchrest top set on top of a weighted pedestal. I do all of my adjustments with the front rest but many shooters have both horizontal and vertical adjustments built into the rear pedestal.

As I said, I can't comment on rear rest set-ups for point blank shooting.

Ray

rests001.jpg
 
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Here's a commercial rear rest made by Action Gun Works. Fully adjustable.

rearrest.jpg
 
Thank You Cheech!!! This could get interesting :) Now, are there any instances where rear bags will get you in trouble in 600-1000 or is the sky the limit? I understand that front rest and rear can't be fastened together except in UL.




But back to 100-200 Group and Score and VFS.

HELP?????

C'mon, can I glue my Protektor to a sheet of plywood? JUST the rear, not the whole setup.... How thick?


al
 
Al

Al you can do anything you want with the rear bad. As long as the front and rear are not connected.
 
alinwa said:
Thank You Cheech!!! This could get interesting :) Now, are there any instances where rear bags will get you in trouble in 600-1000 or is the sky the limit? I understand that front rest and rear can't be fastened together except in UL.
Click to expand...

Yes. IBS Sanctioned 600 and 1,000 yard competitions, where only the HG can have a pedestal rear. Read the IBS rules carefully, they have some restrictions on long-range rests & bags beyond even the short-range rules -- the 1/2-inch of sand rule, and the "only contact" for 1/2-inch (vertical) rule.
 
OK, things are getting clearer.....


I just got off the phone with Dave Dohrmann, got one of the inch-and-a-half spacers for the rear for a 100-200yd setup.... I plan also to use it for long-range stuff...

Now, Thank You Charles for goading me into carefully rereading the IBS rules because the long-range rules state that the reart bag must be filled with dry granular material such as BUT NOT LIMITED TO sand, Zircon, grain etc....... in other words it DOES NOT prohibit lead or Hevi-shot! I did not know this.


So back to 100-200 Group & Score. Can I glue to a board?



al
 
alinwa said:
Thank You Cheech!!! This could get interesting :) Now, are there any instances where rear bags will get you in trouble in 600-1000 or is the sky the limit? I understand that front rest and rear can't be fastened together except in UL.. . . al
Click to expand...

Al

As Gary said, there is virtually no limit on the rear bags as long as you meet the "1/2 inch" of sand requirement.

There is no UL in NBRSA long range. Only LG and HG, and the rests are the same.

The front & rear cannot be fastened together when shooting. Many guys make the front & rear bolted together so that they can set them up perfectly spaced and aligned. Then they remove the bolts. As long as there is a space between the two after they are unbolted it is legal. I've not seen any rule that specifies that they have to be a certain distance apart. But, I'm sure that someone will win a tournament with the two 1/8 inch apart and someone will call for a Congressional inquiry and insist that a required space be spelled out. But, as you know, any shooter worth his salt can work within any rule that anyone may come up with.:rolleyes:

Ray
 
Cheechako,


As you know I don't currently compete... BUT :) ... When I come out I want to be sure to have a workable system. This switch to left-handed shooting is turning into a big deal for me, I'm building all new habits and setting up different gear. Actually redoing some of my old gear.


Another thing is, instead of just junking my old RH Farley I'm still using, I like to run it a little higher than normal as this allows me to reach under the rifle for adjustments. I also bought one of the new Farley Compacts and mounted it on a Hart base......the new Farley is wicked tall so now I'm spacing my bags up in the air.


Keep the info coming, it all helps



al
 
It's an inch

Hard bottom up to an inch in the varmint classes - no adjustments.

As stated, you CAN"T do just anything........
 
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Al

Al
The Portland 600 is under NBRSA rules. You don't need to be an attorney to compete. As in the IBS.
The Varmint for score matches we will have later in the year at Albany, will be under IBS rules. You need to follow them.
 
Wilbur,

So this "inch"........ Can I glue my bag to a board?

Can I glue it to a 3/4" thick steel plate like the base of my Farley?

If I glue it to either thing can I then put three rubber bumpers under the corners?


And I take this to mean that my new Dohrmann bag spacer will be illegal, so what does one do when shooting downhill with a Farley Compact? Can the bag be setting on a hunk of 2X8 lumber? The Rules say "hard bottomed BAG up to one inch thick base" don't they?


Where does the bag stop and the dunnage start?




BTW Gary, this isn't about anything other than following the rules.....I'm an absolute stickler for rules. I'm NOT the racecar driver that'd acid dip my body metal hoping not to get caught.... In my other life I deal with Building Inspectors and Site Inspectors every day, my job is to know the rules BETTER than them so's I'm never wondering nor in some silly argument.



I want to know the rules. That's why I'm asking here, nobody's answered my question;




CAN I glue a bag to a board,

And now, CAN I stack dunnage under my bag?




:)





al
 
alinwa said:
Wilbur,


I want to know the rules. That's why I'm asking here, nobody's answered my question;

CAN I glue a bag to a board,

And now, CAN I stack dunnage under my bag?

al
Click to expand...

From Paragraph 14(c) of the NBRSA Rule book re: Sandbags: "The rear sandbag shall be a bag, or combination of bags containing sand only . . . A vertical spacer under the rear bag will be allowed as long as they incorporate no adjustments for windage or elevation. The vertical spacers shall not contain any protrusions, which can be inserted into bench top or the sandbag, and the top and bottom surfaces of the vertical spacer must be flat."

So, the answer to your question is technically "no." You can use a spacer under the rear bag, but you cannot glue a wooden spacer to the bag because its a spacer and not a bag. (Note: That's why the original Otto donut was a bag and not a spacer like the Dunrud).

Also, you could use a flat rubber ping pong paddle as a spacer, but not one with the little rubber "fingers" aka "protrusions" because its not "flat." Where it gets squirrelly is where you look at Edgewood bags -- where the spacer is built into the bag by design. That was ruled to be acceptable. I guess the argument is that the "bag" is comprised of the spacer. Its not an add on, but part of the original construction. Arbitrary? Perhaps. But, if you show up at a match where I'm referee, I'll DQ you and you can pay $5 to challenge the ruling and then we'll have an answer to your question that you can rely on for future matches. ;) (Heck, the Nationals will be in Phoenix this year, so lets do it there. I'm sure I can convince Gary to let me be a ref for the LV 100 or 200. I'll DQ you for the LV, so you get screwed out of the 2,3 and 4 gun aggs. Been there. Done that.)

These rules are not the model of clarity and I once offered to be on the committee to review and rewrite them but my offer was rejected. But hell, I thought the rule that said no firing after the "Cease Fire" command was given was crystal clear.

Mike "Cease Bang Fire" Marcelli

PS Relax everyone. Its called sarcasm. Its meant to be humorous and thought provoking. SMILE.
 
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