P
Pepper1079
Guest
RBS, I was really looking for a how-to. I don't see anything on his website that would help me to learn. Thanks for the post though.
Jim
Jim
C
cpeters
Guest
Brad,
I think to do a fair comparison you have to compare scores with the other scores of that timeframe. I think though we have continued to make some minor tweaks on our rifles after the tuner came common, they have not changed alot.
I think the biggest difference in scores we have seen in the last couple of years has been the ammo.
When I started in 2003 it was hard to find anything Lapua or Eley that was competetive. In the last 2 years I think the ammo is the best it has ever been. Ya just got to find the right stuff, but it is easier to fine.. and have your rifle tuned just right.
Charlie
I think to do a fair comparison you have to compare scores with the other scores of that timeframe. I think though we have continued to make some minor tweaks on our rifles after the tuner came common, they have not changed alot.
I think the biggest difference in scores we have seen in the last couple of years has been the ammo.
When I started in 2003 it was hard to find anything Lapua or Eley that was competetive. In the last 2 years I think the ammo is the best it has ever been. Ya just got to find the right stuff, but it is easier to fine.. and have your rifle tuned just right.
Charlie
S
steve b.
Guest
James,
That's a great and important post. There are alot of shooters in this game that know nothing about it's history or who got it here.
I did an interview with Allan Hall for a magazine, and I still meet BR shooters that don't know who he is or what his role in BR has been, and two of them shot Hall actions. My goal with that article was to bring people up to speed on the roots of our sport.
Some of the older gentlemen at matches that we just walk past are the reason this sport is here. Their names and efforts need to be known for us to put things in perspective.
Again, good post James.
That's a great and important post. There are alot of shooters in this game that know nothing about it's history or who got it here.
I did an interview with Allan Hall for a magazine, and I still meet BR shooters that don't know who he is or what his role in BR has been, and two of them shot Hall actions. My goal with that article was to bring people up to speed on the roots of our sport.
Some of the older gentlemen at matches that we just walk past are the reason this sport is here. Their names and efforts need to be known for us to put things in perspective.
Again, good post James.
S
steve b.
Guest
Pepper...
Alex isn't gonna walk us through it, but here is a part of his webpage that explains his reasons.
http://www.masterclassstocks.com/pillarbedding.html
The key to Alex's success is attention to detail. I have a stock from him, and I have probably bedded close 50 rifles since then, and to match his fit and finish is very, very hard. His is an artist, and it's his abilities that set him apart. We all have the same tools, just not the touch.
s.
Alex isn't gonna walk us through it, but here is a part of his webpage that explains his reasons.
http://www.masterclassstocks.com/pillarbedding.html
The key to Alex's success is attention to detail. I have a stock from him, and I have probably bedded close 50 rifles since then, and to match his fit and finish is very, very hard. His is an artist, and it's his abilities that set him apart. We all have the same tools, just not the touch.
s.
J
J Pappas
Guest
History
No rimfire benchrest rest rifle has ever shot higher scores or better in ARA or BR-50 than Dearl Lanes rifle. I think you would find Dearls and Mike Eshlemans scores were higher than the scores the last couple of years at the Nationals. Dearls rifle was not built by Bill Calfee. Fred Jamisons rifle was not built by Bill either. It would shoot as good as any Calfee rifle ever made. Calfee rifles have done well since YOU have been shooting br. But when you start talking about best ever, that is a strech. James
No rimfire benchrest rest rifle has ever shot higher scores or better in ARA or BR-50 than Dearl Lanes rifle. I think you would find Dearls and Mike Eshlemans scores were higher than the scores the last couple of years at the Nationals. Dearls rifle was not built by Bill Calfee. Fred Jamisons rifle was not built by Bill either. It would shoot as good as any Calfee rifle ever made. Calfee rifles have done well since YOU have been shooting br. But when you start talking about best ever, that is a strech. James
I would like to see a history of who won major matches beginning with BR-50 back in the early 90's. It would be nice to see the equipment lists, gunsmiths etc. I think Steve Turner won the BR-50 nationals and the G-line a couple of years in a row and I think Selby Wright won the nationals once. Both of those guys were Borden shooters and it would be nice to know if Calfee had any input into the building of those rifles. It would also be nice to see Dearl Lane and Mike Eshleman shoot at the nationals again to see if they could repeat without the much vaunted Lapua ammo that many attributed to their success.
Brad
First off, let me say i'm not trying to put you down or pick on you but.......you talk like you are one of the "grand ole men of benchrest" but i remember just what......3 years or so ago when you claimed "loud and long" that the .17HMR was the most accurate rimfire ever made and would outshoot any .22 rimfire benchrest rifle.Of course you quickly found out different and you owned up to your mistake but my point is......you might still have a bit to learn? My feelings are that if Bill Calfee would build his rifles ,and learn not to toot his own horn all the time,he would get the respect he so desperately craves? My Mom always said not to brag or talk about yourself and that if you acomplished something noteworthy...others would mention it for you. Bill Calfee is generally a good read and i would imagine he knows a lot about rimfire accuracy but he always strikes me as a "carney huckster" the way he carries on with his world changing ideas but then very seldom follows thru on his grand proclamations and leaves everyone hanging.The only two rimfire gunsmiths i'm familier with are Butch Hongisto and Roger Brock and i would put thier rifles against any in the world.I would also bet a Meyers or Davis rifle would shoot right with them. Anyway,sorry if i offended anyone but Calfee is just a good gunsmith like many others except he chooses to self promote himself constantly.By the way James...good post.
Colt.45
First off, let me say i'm not trying to put you down or pick on you but.......you talk like you are one of the "grand ole men of benchrest" but i remember just what......3 years or so ago when you claimed "loud and long" that the .17HMR was the most accurate rimfire ever made and would outshoot any .22 rimfire benchrest rifle.Of course you quickly found out different and you owned up to your mistake but my point is......you might still have a bit to learn? My feelings are that if Bill Calfee would build his rifles ,and learn not to toot his own horn all the time,he would get the respect he so desperately craves? My Mom always said not to brag or talk about yourself and that if you acomplished something noteworthy...others would mention it for you. Bill Calfee is generally a good read and i would imagine he knows a lot about rimfire accuracy but he always strikes me as a "carney huckster" the way he carries on with his world changing ideas but then very seldom follows thru on his grand proclamations and leaves everyone hanging.The only two rimfire gunsmiths i'm familier with are Butch Hongisto and Roger Brock and i would put thier rifles against any in the world.I would also bet a Meyers or Davis rifle would shoot right with them. Anyway,sorry if i offended anyone but Calfee is just a good gunsmith like many others except he chooses to self promote himself constantly.By the way James...good post.
Colt.45
B
BJH
Guest
Well i was going to show my wallet groups but ,guess not .....James thanks for telling it like it is.....Someone needed to ....
T
Tom C.
Guest
i think friend wilbur's in hagerstown md this
weekend. don't know if he's keeping an eye on things or not.
he'll probably be deletin' away when he gets home.
weekend. don't know if he's keeping an eye on things or not.
he'll probably be deletin' away when he gets home.
J
J Pappas
Guest
History
Beau, you are right, Selby won the Nationals in 1992. I don't Steve Turner ever won the Nationals but he might have. When you say Dearl and Mike were using vaunted ammo you would probably agree that the new eley is at as good as the ammo they were shooting.
As for my post Brad was talking about dominate rifles.I said Harry Deneen made Bill famous. I don't think that Harry had the most dominate rifle all the time but he was always the best shooter on the firing line.
Yes, Steve Turner won the G-line and deserved it, but it is doubtful he was using the most dominate rimfire out there at that time. He is one of the all time great shooters, though. A lot of people who won the G-line or A-line were not shooting great rifles. James
Beau, you are right, Selby won the Nationals in 1992. I don't Steve Turner ever won the Nationals but he might have. When you say Dearl and Mike were using vaunted ammo you would probably agree that the new eley is at as good as the ammo they were shooting.
As for my post Brad was talking about dominate rifles.I said Harry Deneen made Bill famous. I don't think that Harry had the most dominate rifle all the time but he was always the best shooter on the firing line.
Yes, Steve Turner won the G-line and deserved it, but it is doubtful he was using the most dominate rimfire out there at that time. He is one of the all time great shooters, though. A lot of people who won the G-line or A-line were not shooting great rifles. James
J
J Pappas
Guest
James,
I agree that the new Eley is as good or better and I'm not minimalizing thier accomplishments. I don't even know if they used the same ammo in their wins but that was the rumor. It was also rumored that the last time Dearl won the nationals, the ammo was depleted and he wouldn't win again. He hasn't, but that doesn't mean he couldn't. Steve may have won the G-line only, I just remember vaugely the PS ads for the Lilja barrels. That's why I would like to see the history of the BR-50 nationals and ARA nationals with equipment lists. I seriously doubt that anyone could declare the best rimfire rifle ever and then prove it. Seems to me it takes a combination of action, barrel, ammo, and shooter. Not necessarily in that order.
I agree that the new Eley is as good or better and I'm not minimalizing thier accomplishments. I don't even know if they used the same ammo in their wins but that was the rumor. It was also rumored that the last time Dearl won the nationals, the ammo was depleted and he wouldn't win again. He hasn't, but that doesn't mean he couldn't. Steve may have won the G-line only, I just remember vaugely the PS ads for the Lilja barrels. That's why I would like to see the history of the BR-50 nationals and ARA nationals with equipment lists. I seriously doubt that anyone could declare the best rimfire rifle ever and then prove it. Seems to me it takes a combination of action, barrel, ammo, and shooter. Not necessarily in that order.
J
J Pappas
Guest
Beau, You Are Right Again
Beau, You are right. The point that I have been trying to make is there have been a lot of great rifles thru the years, not just the last 2 years. The rifles Bill has made the last couple of years are great rifles.Great rifles and great shooters are two different things. Sometimes the winner is the one who is the best shooter, not the one who has the best rifle. Sometimes though when you have someone who is a great shooter with a great rifle the results show it. I think Bill Calfee has a couple of people shooting his rifles right now who are as good as anybody who has shot this sport and it shows. I also thinks that some people equates that to Bill being the greatest gunsmith who ever built a rimfire rifle. That for me is a strech. James
Beau, You are right. The point that I have been trying to make is there have been a lot of great rifles thru the years, not just the last 2 years. The rifles Bill has made the last couple of years are great rifles.Great rifles and great shooters are two different things. Sometimes the winner is the one who is the best shooter, not the one who has the best rifle. Sometimes though when you have someone who is a great shooter with a great rifle the results show it. I think Bill Calfee has a couple of people shooting his rifles right now who are as good as anybody who has shot this sport and it shows. I also thinks that some people equates that to Bill being the greatest gunsmith who ever built a rimfire rifle. That for me is a strech. James
Joe Friedrich
Member
Beau and James, good replies and see it the same way.
Take Care,
Joe
Take Care,
Joe
M
mistermike
Guest
James and Beau,
Thanks for the info. As a new-comer to RF benchrest, it's nice to get a sense of the history of this sport. Who were the people? What were the technical innovations and failures? And it's a plus to hear it from the folks who were a part of it.
It just adds to the enjoyment; stuff to mull-over when not actually sitting on the line and pulling the trigger.
Steve B. -- Was your article on Alan Hall ever printed?
Best,
Michael
Thanks for the info. As a new-comer to RF benchrest, it's nice to get a sense of the history of this sport. Who were the people? What were the technical innovations and failures? And it's a plus to hear it from the folks who were a part of it.
It just adds to the enjoyment; stuff to mull-over when not actually sitting on the line and pulling the trigger.
Steve B. -- Was your article on Alan Hall ever printed?
Best,
Michael
S
steve b.
Guest
Michael,
Yes, it was in either winter or spring 2008 edition of Small Caliber News.
Unfortunately, the owner of the magazine (idiot) closed it down, so it's not possible to order another copy. Oddly enough, I don't have any printed copies of the article myself.
s.
Yes, it was in either winter or spring 2008 edition of Small Caliber News.
Unfortunately, the owner of the magazine (idiot) closed it down, so it's not possible to order another copy. Oddly enough, I don't have any printed copies of the article myself.
s.
D
Don Stith
Guest
Some of you that remember the great shooting Gary Mitchell did with his McWhorter rifle might also remember that KC Young used that same rifle To clean house in BR50. The other rifle KC won with was the old 37 Remington ( Yosemity Sam) he put a Lilja barrel on.
Don
Don
J
J Pappas
Guest
More History
I left out one of the best shooters of BR-50 and ARA for the last 18 years. He won the BR-50 Nationals in 1993. Glen Townley has been one of the best shooters in rimfire br in BR-50 and ARA since the early 90's. Sorry glen.
I left out one of the best shooters of BR-50 and ARA for the last 18 years. He won the BR-50 Nationals in 1993. Glen Townley has been one of the best shooters in rimfire br in BR-50 and ARA since the early 90's. Sorry glen.
T
Tom C.
Guest
to j. pappas
you know wilbur, did you look at the kathy centerfire thread?
makes no difference to me it's HIS (wilburs) forum. i must have missed something
but someone inferred all the posts make wilbur money. i would think it
would cost him to have to pay for additional memory. maybe i missing
something here.
you know wilbur, did you look at the kathy centerfire thread?
makes no difference to me it's HIS (wilburs) forum. i must have missed something
but someone inferred all the posts make wilbur money. i would think it
would cost him to have to pay for additional memory. maybe i missing
something here.
J
J Pappas
Guest
How Ironic
Lynn, It looks like the "funny folks" are the ones making Wilbur all this money you are talking about. They are the ones who wake up every day and think, "what is Bill going to say today?" And then,"how is Lynn going to explain it to us"? You know the "train wreck factor". Lynn, I'm looking at the advertising above my post. Most of the advertisers are shooters on the forum. I think most of them understand why the views from Calfees are high. James
Lynn, It looks like the "funny folks" are the ones making Wilbur all this money you are talking about. They are the ones who wake up every day and think, "what is Bill going to say today?" And then,"how is Lynn going to explain it to us"? You know the "train wreck factor". Lynn, I'm looking at the advertising above my post. Most of the advertisers are shooters on the forum. I think most of them understand why the views from Calfees are high. James