Free Recoil question for Tonykharper
- Thread starter Old1942
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Bob1949
Member
From one oldman to another oldman, I started shooting free recoil about five or six years ago.
I’m a right hander and sit to the left/next to my rifle.
I’m not saying that some shooters, shoot from behind, It’s just that I have never seen it done that way.
When I shoot I keep my right hand away from the gun and pinch the trigger with my left forefinger and thumb behind the trigger guard.
Bob
I’m a right hander and sit to the left/next to my rifle.
I’m not saying that some shooters, shoot from behind, It’s just that I have never seen it done that way.
When I shoot I keep my right hand away from the gun and pinch the trigger with my left forefinger and thumb behind the trigger guard.
Bob
tonykharper
Well-known member
There are no dumb questions, just dumb answers. Perhaps, I'm about to give one now.
People are different and what makes them comfortable is different. I believe you have to be stable and comfortable in your position.
Most benches are built with a cut out and that kinda means you will be beside the rifle.
If you sat behind the rifle you would be pretty far back. If you have long arms and a long neck you may be comfortable that way?
I don't think it really matters as long as you are stable and comfortable.
Now here is where I get in trouble.
Is shooting free recoil really shooting? It is legal, but is it really shooting?
It may be the best way many people can shoot, but is it good form?
If you touch nothing but a very light trigger you are simply observing the results of your pointing.
The results of the shot is dependent on the rifle, rest, and ammo. You are not involved.
You are nothing more than a curious observer that happened to pick the hold point.
Sporters are the lightest, and lest stable rifles we shoot in RFBR, most, if not all, shoot best being held.
If you accept that as fact, and I do, you will understand it can only help our heavier rifles.
Of course, it takes time to learn how to hold and not cause more problems than you solve but that is shooting.
Have you ever noticed how people will say "it" shot a 9? or "it" will group in the ones. "It" is doing the shooting not the shooter.
These people have accepted they really aren't a big part of the process.
I'm not being critical, I believe to each their own, but I also believe you will get more out of the sport the more actively you are involved.
Pinching the trigger works for some, but really isn't a good technique.
A better idea is installing an o ring on the trigger blade and making sure the pad of your finger engages that o ring the same way every shot.
TKH
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Free recoil question for Tonykharper
Thank you guys for the replies. I will be beside the rifle. Tony I will try the Oring on the trigger thanks for the tip. Pedro have have not heard of pulling the arm back before. Is this technique something of yours? I have a Tony Slapikas roller top(alsap@comcast.com) on my Bald Eagle. My MKiii rifle has a 8-9oz trigger and tracks back very smoothly after the shot, so pulling the arm back for me would move the rifle before the trigger release?
Thank you guys for the replies. I will be beside the rifle. Tony I will try the Oring on the trigger thanks for the tip. Pedro have have not heard of pulling the arm back before. Is this technique something of yours? I have a Tony Slapikas roller top(alsap@comcast.com) on my Bald Eagle. My MKiii rifle has a 8-9oz trigger and tracks back very smoothly after the shot, so pulling the arm back for me would move the rifle before the trigger release?
tonykharper
Well-known member
oldman,
I feel compelled to tell you that the roller rest and your heavy trigger aren't a good match. Add to that shooting free recoil and you have a no win situation.
I've seen others use roller rest and I've tried them but I just can't make them work for me.
You may want to lock your rifle down a little tighter or get a lighter trigger or both.
Finding the right combination that is comfortable for you is all part of the fun.
TKH
I use this arm pull, and not finger pull, because it gives me the best release possible, and a perfect followthrough. But be aware, all my triggers release around 1 oz...
For benchrest, the 1st thing is trying the lightest trigger possible. If it's not, holding in some form the rifle, is the answer.
Sorry Pedro, I simply cannot believe moving your entire arm is anywhere near as consistent asa simple bend of your finger.
If it works for you, I guess great, but in all the RF as well as CF world.....this is a first for me.
for sure you never did archery at high level
Well, the next time I hear about anybody putting arrows in a 1/4” circle @ 50 yards I’ll be all ears.
Seriously, moving your entire arm as opposed to bending the last joint on one finger?????? You might want to rethink that one.
I invite you to take a look here:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCL_1IcdIyY4idz_ghvCT3zw
you'll be surprised...
Physiology and brain decision plays a very different role between those two movements. You'll be surprised too...
I'm not trying to convince anyone. I just share my experience with an open mind, it's up to the shooters to try or not, again with an open mind.
Release surprise and followthrough are two most important points in precision shooting, not successfully achieved with recoil free and finger control, reasons why holding the rifle is a very good solution like on ISSF disciplines. Benchrest is a different beast.
More food to thought... target panic and finger control...
Never mind...
BillBrawand
New member
Free Recoil question for Tonykharper
Tony, I shoot a BSA MKiii rifle built by Mac Tilton in about 2008, in 100yd schuetzen benchrest. I live in Amarillo Texas in the wind. If I increase overtravel could I lower the trigger pull weight safely? I use the roller top front rest with a rear rest ,Protektor model Flat Top Dr. Rear Benchrest bag, with 3M slick material. I know the lower trigger pull weight would help my shooting. How do I DO IT? Could you recommend a good trigger smith?
Tony, I shoot a BSA MKiii rifle built by Mac Tilton in about 2008, in 100yd schuetzen benchrest. I live in Amarillo Texas in the wind. If I increase overtravel could I lower the trigger pull weight safely? I use the roller top front rest with a rear rest ,Protektor model Flat Top Dr. Rear Benchrest bag, with 3M slick material. I know the lower trigger pull weight would help my shooting. How do I DO IT? Could you recommend a good trigger smith?
tonykharper
Well-known member
I know you don't want to hear this but as good as those old BSA MK111 are they can't cut the mustard today. Too many better rifles available these days.
I don't know of anyone that could get that trigger where it needs to be. In competitive RFBR 2 oz triggers are heavy. Many are using less than 1 oz.
If you are just having fun that's great, but if you really want to be competitive/win you will have to upgrade your rifle/trigger.
TKH
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My experience is that with most things related to benchrest shooting if you shoot long enough you'll know what works best for you. Not just related to shooting techniques it includes cleaning, mental prep, packing... even clothing.
Picking up tips from experienced shooters is usually helpful but even after trying them for a while they might not be right for you.
I've developed a technique for shooting Sporter but when someone asks me about it usually it doesn't take long before they look like I'm trying to sell them some Amway products. It's served me well but it might not be right for anyone else.
Bruce Hornstein
Picking up tips from experienced shooters is usually helpful but even after trying them for a while they might not be right for you.
I've developed a technique for shooting Sporter but when someone asks me about it usually it doesn't take long before they look like I'm trying to sell them some Amway products. It's served me well but it might not be right for anyone else.
Bruce Hornstein
Well, might I ask, what the sporter technique is ? Always like to hear about sporter stuff.
Also, if you’d care to, even your cleaning regimen.
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Bruce, when we spoke at the UL Indoor Nationals you shared a Sporter tip with me. Is what you are referring to here have to do with where you position the reticle on the target? If so, I'll let you explain it.
Scott
An alternative Sporter approach
Tim:
Alright, here goes...
I shoot a Leupold Competition Hunter. (straight 6X). It comes with their Target Dot reticle. I'm not sure if it's their smallest dot but it's nice and small.
I don't hold in the center of the bull. Since I cant see the lines on the bull at 6 power all that I see is a big white empty space with nothing to consistently put my dot on. Especially after several targets aiming for the center of all that white space is a dicey business in my opinion. And God forbid you have to hold of a little (or a lot). I think a lot of Sporter misses come from the vagaries of holding off in that big white circle with 6 power scope.
So, I only use the big outer circles since I can see them clearly and consistently. My ideal hold is the dot down at 6 o'clock and half-way into the black. To confirm this I use the horizontal lines on the reticle to see them just disappear into the black on the bull to the right. I think my scope is about 10 clicks up from center hold to set it up at the bottom like this.
But wait.. there's more! This hold (just talking about vertical now) can give you 5 very repeatable holds:
1. Dot just touching the black ring
2. Dot half-way into the black ring
3. Dot completely in the black ring (the Leupold dot fits the height of the black rings perfectly
4. Dot half-way out the bottom of the black rings
5. Dot just touching the black rings at the bottom.
This method also allows you to easily find the vertical center of each bull. Using method 5 from above you can easily tell when the top of the dot touches the bottom of the big circle. That's your center. Then you can come up to any of the holds that work and you're good. Once you're comfortable with these holds it's also easy to consistently move to your left/right hold-off as well.
So, what about using the small sighters on the sides? If you're not holding in the center how to adjust for the dramatic hold on the bottom? I line up the dot for my hold on the record bull and then slide over to the sighter and confirm that the horizontal lines on the reticle are where they should be on the record bull.
I find the small sighters most useful for checking my tracking and set-up of my rifle. I put the dot in the center of a small sighter and watch the shot. I want the dot to remain centered in that small sighter. If it isn't then I need to check my rear bag and anything else that might affect tracking.
Lastly, I never watch my record shots through the scope as I shoot. I either watch the flags if I'm outside or close my eyes if I'm inside, listen to my music and let the trigger break be a surprise.
So, Tim... can I interest you in some of that Amway detergent?
Tim:
Alright, here goes...
I shoot a Leupold Competition Hunter. (straight 6X). It comes with their Target Dot reticle. I'm not sure if it's their smallest dot but it's nice and small.
I don't hold in the center of the bull. Since I cant see the lines on the bull at 6 power all that I see is a big white empty space with nothing to consistently put my dot on. Especially after several targets aiming for the center of all that white space is a dicey business in my opinion. And God forbid you have to hold of a little (or a lot). I think a lot of Sporter misses come from the vagaries of holding off in that big white circle with 6 power scope.
So, I only use the big outer circles since I can see them clearly and consistently. My ideal hold is the dot down at 6 o'clock and half-way into the black. To confirm this I use the horizontal lines on the reticle to see them just disappear into the black on the bull to the right. I think my scope is about 10 clicks up from center hold to set it up at the bottom like this.
But wait.. there's more! This hold (just talking about vertical now) can give you 5 very repeatable holds:
1. Dot just touching the black ring
2. Dot half-way into the black ring
3. Dot completely in the black ring (the Leupold dot fits the height of the black rings perfectly
4. Dot half-way out the bottom of the black rings
5. Dot just touching the black rings at the bottom.
This method also allows you to easily find the vertical center of each bull. Using method 5 from above you can easily tell when the top of the dot touches the bottom of the big circle. That's your center. Then you can come up to any of the holds that work and you're good. Once you're comfortable with these holds it's also easy to consistently move to your left/right hold-off as well.
So, what about using the small sighters on the sides? If you're not holding in the center how to adjust for the dramatic hold on the bottom? I line up the dot for my hold on the record bull and then slide over to the sighter and confirm that the horizontal lines on the reticle are where they should be on the record bull.
I find the small sighters most useful for checking my tracking and set-up of my rifle. I put the dot in the center of a small sighter and watch the shot. I want the dot to remain centered in that small sighter. If it isn't then I need to check my rear bag and anything else that might affect tracking.
Lastly, I never watch my record shots through the scope as I shoot. I either watch the flags if I'm outside or close my eyes if I'm inside, listen to my music and let the trigger break be a surprise.
So, Tim... can I interest you in some of that Amway detergent?
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