Free bore

J

j mckinnie

Guest
So what is the going understanding.The PPC is recognised as being 1.500 long the average reamer cuts 1.515+,does free bore start at the 1.500 mark or the end of the chamber.My reamer cut a 1.500 chamber with .035 free bore which if your reamer cuts a 1,525 chamber would equate to .010 free bore??:confused:
 
Your last sentence says it all. If you use the term "freebore" to refer to the reamer print, it starts after the "mean little shoulder" where the neck steps down, usually at 45-degrees, to the parallel portion of clearance for the bullet. It runs until the angle of the "forcing cone" begins.

But if you're looking at it from the bullet's perspective, its (ideally) " just clearance," so yes, if you trim your necks or for some reason have a long chamber, that becomes part of the freebore.

Best not to get hung up on words...but you knew that.
 
Don't think in terms of where the neck ends, think in terms of measuring everything from the bolt face. If you do that, all of the definitions become much more clear.......jackie
 
If you are planning for a bullet that has a long ogive, to be sure that there is enough of it in the neck (or a blunt one, to be sure that its base does not fall in or below the neck shoulder junction), looking at the print in the manner that you have described can be important. As you undoubtedly are aware there is a gap between the end of the case neck, and the start of the angular transition from the neck portion of the chamber to the portion of the throat that is parallel sided and slightly larger than bullet diameter (the freebore, often referred to dimensionally as the throat length). Forward of that section, the leade angle intersects the ogive of a bullet that is seated to touch the rifling or be engraved by it. It is the distance from the end of the case to where the bullet contacts the rifling that is of concern when designing a reamer so that it is optimized for a particular bullet shape. You are correct in your assumption that trim length, chamber length to the end of the neck, the length of the transition, and freebore length all are part of this calculation. There are other components as well. The leade angle, and the the point within which the barrel headspace falls within the allowable tolerance are also involved, but to a lesser degree, the former because leade angles have become pretty much standardized at a degree and a half per side, and the latter because the probable variance is small.

The best way that I have of looking at this problem is by assembling a dummy round with the bullet being considered, to a length that is longer than what would have the bullet just touching the rifling. By first measuring the combined length of the case in a "gizzy" (short piece of barrel partially chambered with my reamer) and then taking the same measurement with the bullet in the case, and subtracting one from the other, I can see how much longer than touch I have loaded the dummy round. Since I know that my reamer was ground for a maximum case length of 1.515", with a freebore of .060, I can get a pretty good idea of what will be needed to accomodate a given bullet so that it is in the position within the neck that I want. The only situation that this will not work for is one where the bullet cannot be seated longer than touch. So far, although there are a couple of bullets where the amount of shank in the case neck would not be usable for actual shooting, I have not run across one that could not be loaded in a dummy slightly longer than touching so that it was secure enough for measuring purposes. Having looked at every bullet that I have used and been able to get as sample of in a manner similar to what I have described, and given that my current taste runs toward the double radius ogives that leave less bullet in the case neck than older designs, and that I have gone to larger neck clearance, I would probably order my next reamer with a shorter freebore, perhaps .025, with a neck diameter that was slightly larger, to restore case neck thickness to what it was before I thinned them, perhaps a .264, which I believe would preserve the option of trying the newest Norma brass, which has thinner necks than Lapua.
 
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Hugh Henriksen told me that the effective freebore is from the end of the case to the forcing portion of the lands. In the case of my reamer, it has an overall chamber length of 1.515 and a stated freebore of .025. So, in essence my freebore for a 1.500 case is the .025 + the .015 of extra chamber length or in effect a total of .040. Any more than this keeps me from seating Bart's Bt deep enough into the case. Good shooting...James
 
thanks

Thank Mr. Mock my point to this thread was to high light the grey area of free bore my reamer does have a 1.5 chamber ane .035 free bore which in some cases is zero free bore.just a thing i guess
jim
 
...my reamer does have a 1.5 chamber ane .035 free bore which in some cases is zero free bore.

Not sure what you are trying to say, but that makes absolutely no sense. Unless you have a very strange neck, you'll always have at least .035 freebore.
 
Thank Mr. Mock my point to this thread was to high light the grey area of free bore my reamer does have a 1.5 chamber ane .035 free bore which in some cases is zero free bore.just a thing i guess
jim

Zero freebore is zero freebore, .035 freebore is .035 freebore, NOT the same. Not just a thing, they're different. Lissen to Charles.

(well not the 'strange neck' part :) )

al
 
So what is the going understanding.The PPC is recognised as being 1.500 long the average reamer cuts 1.515+,does free bore start at the 1.500 mark or the end of the chamber.My reamer cut a 1.500 chamber with .035 free bore which if your reamer cuts a 1,525 chamber would equate to .010 free bore??:confused:

If you have a print of your reamer, look at where the dimension and extension lines are.

On my Henriksen drawings the freebore is dimensioned from where the little bevel at the neck ENDS to where the leade (forcing cone) starts. On my JGS drawings the freebore is dimensioned from where the little bevel ENDS to the the leade starts AND there is another dimension from where that bevel starts, but the what is normally called the effective freebore is the former dimension.
 
the grey area

my reamer is 1.500 chamber and .035 free bore.I sorta get it.but .035 free bore isnt .035 if the chamber is 1.515. as in .035 + .015 is oh I cant add up but obviously its .035 free bore coz i wuz told.
 
As to freebore, consider the bullet you are shooting or intend to shoot. On short range benchrest, for example, you don't want the bullet base below the case neck/shoulder intersection. You also won't want the bullet body to be seated shallow enough to where you loose the ability to control neck tension. Generally about 2/3 to 3/4 down from the case mouth is where most shooters strive for, only engagement with the rifling being more important.

If you only have one barrel, or reamer, you may want to consider changing bullets (nose shape and/or jacket length) to get the desired stackup. There are bullets on 0.750, 0.790 and 0.825 jacket lengths. In those there are variations of nose shape including 7, 7-3/4, 8, 8-1/2 ogive, as well as double ogive noses such as 5-9, 7-11 and other. Given forethought there is no reason to not get what you in that chambering need to shoot well.

Long range benchrest considerations with its longer bullets is another ball of yarn.
 
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the point

I was trying to make ,was when anyone quotes free bore they should state the length of their chamber.Zero free bore becomes a funny thing when the chamber length isnt known.Just trying to help new guys that havent been bedazelled with terminology yet.
jim
 
There is the freebore spec. when ordering a reamer, and there is the distance between the end of a case, trimmed to whatever length has been selected, and the point where the leade angle begins. The distinction needs to be made. I found this example of a typical reamer print. http://www.the-long-family.com/images/6mm Dasher.jpg
If you examine it, the dimension that corresponds to what I believe most of us who order reamers call the freebore is .110. If you were to order a zero freebore reamer. it is this segment of the chamber that would be eliminated, reduced to length of zero. Another consideration is the diameter of the freebore. Although it needs to be slightly larger than the bullet, some factory dimensions are quite a bit more. The larger the diameter, the farther along the throat angle the point of contact with a given bullet will be.
 
There is the freebore spec. when ordering a reamer, and there is the distance between the end of a case, trimmed to whatever length has been selected, and the point where the leade angle begins. The distinction needs to be made. I found this example of a typical reamer print. http://www.the-long-family.com/images/6mm Dasher.jpg
If you examine it, the dimension that corresponds to what I believe most of us who order reamers call the freebore is .110. If you were to order a zero freebore reamer. it is this segment of the chamber that would be eliminated, reduced to length of zero. Another consideration is the diameter of the freebore. Although it needs to be slightly larger than the bullet, some factory dimensions are quite a bit more. The larger the diameter, the farther along the throat angle the point of contact with a given bullet will be.

Thinking about this, It seems to me that the Freebore would be measured from where the reamer stopped cutting for the neck. It doesn't make sense to me that one would need to consider their case length but instead use the length of the cut chamber.
 
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