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lancexxx
Guest
What is most people doing to fireform brass.
http://www.6mmbr.com/6improvedform.html
Try this link.
I expand mine up (only to 25 cal) and take them back down to 24 just far enough so that they fit snugly. I want it so that it takes some force to close the bolt on a sized case. I take my bolt apart so I can get a better feel for when I am there.
Get the right equipment!!!!!! I tried to expand with a regular 25 cal expander button....VERY BAD IDEA!!! Get an expander die and the correct mandral for it. I never lost a case after I switched.
Also, you will need to size them back down with either a regular FL or neck die.....don't try to use a bushing style die.
I also jam my bullets.....maybe if I took the cases up to 26 or 7mm I wouldn't need to, but, I figure It is less stress on the brass to only take them to 25....That is just me.
Good luck,
Tod
Try this link.
I expand mine up (only to 25 cal) and take them back down to 24 just far enough so that they fit snugly. I want it so that it takes some force to close the bolt on a sized case. I take my bolt apart so I can get a better feel for when I am there.
Get the right equipment!!!!!! I tried to expand with a regular 25 cal expander button....VERY BAD IDEA!!! Get an expander die and the correct mandral for it. I never lost a case after I switched.
Also, you will need to size them back down with either a regular FL or neck die.....don't try to use a bushing style die.
I also jam my bullets.....maybe if I took the cases up to 26 or 7mm I wouldn't need to, but, I figure It is less stress on the brass to only take them to 25....That is just me.
Good luck,
Tod
Actually, I misspoke....... Tod is right.
I should have said .25 or 6.5mm NOT 7mm. 7mm is probably too much.
I've never brought 6mm necks up to 7mm and I have done a lot of them using a .257 mandrel from a Redding 25-06 die. Using a .25 mandrel I did not find a need to jam bullets.
al
I should have said .25 or 6.5mm NOT 7mm. 7mm is probably too much.
I've never brought 6mm necks up to 7mm and I have done a lot of them using a .257 mandrel from a Redding 25-06 die. Using a .25 mandrel I did not find a need to jam bullets.
al
I take mine up to 6.5mm using a K-M Expandiron available cheap at Brunos.I then take them back down using a Forster full length die available at Sinclairs.Add a primer 8 grains of Unique or Red Dot then fill the entire case full of Cream Of Wheat up to the top of the neck.When you have 50 of them done tap on the reloading tray until the cream of wheat settles to the neck/shoulder junction and put toilet paper rolled up into a little ball between your thumb and forefinger in the neck with a small screwdriver or pencil.
Put Imperial Sizing Die Wax on your thumb and forefinger and rub it all over the body of the case install it in the gun and fire.
Now you have a nice crisp sharp shoulder and you can turn your necks properly.If you don't have a crisp shoulder or it looks rounded you need more powder than the 8 grains.
Once you have the necks turned use about 30 grains of RE15 and a heavy bullet to do a second fireforming at reduced pressure and to get rid of the RE15.
If you hit the brass hard on the first firing you will get erratic pressure and lost cases plus blown primers even at the Nationals but don't ask my father how that is possible.Once your cases have been shot twice you will no longer have any pressure issues at all even if you use the same load that caused headaches and problems at the Nationals for you.
In my 2 guns the false shoulder doesn't hold the case back against the boltface hard enough to keep it from moving with the firing pin strike so I always use two loads to fully fireform my brass.Try one case in your gun and see if the 6.5mm shoulder holds it tightly or just good enough to hold cream of wheat.My brass was brand new this year soi it might have a softer anneal on it.
Waterboy
Put Imperial Sizing Die Wax on your thumb and forefinger and rub it all over the body of the case install it in the gun and fire.
Now you have a nice crisp sharp shoulder and you can turn your necks properly.If you don't have a crisp shoulder or it looks rounded you need more powder than the 8 grains.
Once you have the necks turned use about 30 grains of RE15 and a heavy bullet to do a second fireforming at reduced pressure and to get rid of the RE15.
If you hit the brass hard on the first firing you will get erratic pressure and lost cases plus blown primers even at the Nationals but don't ask my father how that is possible.Once your cases have been shot twice you will no longer have any pressure issues at all even if you use the same load that caused headaches and problems at the Nationals for you.
In my 2 guns the false shoulder doesn't hold the case back against the boltface hard enough to keep it from moving with the firing pin strike so I always use two loads to fully fireform my brass.Try one case in your gun and see if the 6.5mm shoulder holds it tightly or just good enough to hold cream of wheat.My brass was brand new this year soi it might have a softer anneal on it.
Waterboy
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Jay Idaho
Guest
I made a .250 expander from the shank of a broken 1/4" carbide drill. I use it to expand the original BR brass then size the neck down using a Dasher die. I then use RE15 powder and whatever bullets to fireform the body/shoulder. Haven't lost any cases using this method.
It is not necessary to expand the case necks to more than .250 i.d., it gives an adequate "false shoulder" for fireforming.
Jay, Idaho
It is not necessary to expand the case necks to more than .250 i.d., it gives an adequate "false shoulder" for fireforming.
Jay, Idaho
Boyd Allen
Active member
Just curious..
If you turned, to the shoulder, before expanding up, would you be doing yourself some good as far as the potential for donuts, or is this even an issue with this caliber?
If you turned, to the shoulder, before expanding up, would you be doing yourself some good as far as the potential for donuts, or is this even an issue with this caliber?
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dasher john
Guest
"Also, you will need to size them back down with either a regular FL or neck die.....don't try to use a bushing style die."
Tod- (or anyone for that matter)
I was just curious as to why a bushing die should not be used to bring the neck back down before seating the bullet.
Thanks,
John
Tod- (or anyone for that matter)
I was just curious as to why a bushing die should not be used to bring the neck back down before seating the bullet.
Thanks,
John
look at this cutaway view of a bushing die.......
http://www.redding-reloading.com/pages/typesbushseatdie.html
See how there's an area at the 'interface' if the die and the bushing which is kinda' rough or unsupported or whatever you want to call it. It's where the bushing and die come together, there's a necessary tolerance... a gap.
Picture this, when ironing that shoulder back the working edge is this particular point. In other words the forming edge or forming surface is actually a broken surface or junction of the two parts.
This is why it's most often best to use a one-piece or Neil Jones style bushing although a standard bushing die MAY work in a pinch........ some will, some flat-out won't. Sometimes turning the bushing over helps. In any case it's not ideal and when it DOES work it leaves a liddle funky line right at the critical headspacing junction. (Which is specifically why you went to all this trouble in the first place!)
hth
al
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Big Al
Guest
Once again, Neil Jones has done all the work when he makes your dies. When I think about all of the dies I've had him make for me, I remember the smile that always come to my face. It has been a pure pleasure using his dies.
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Greg Fowl
Guest
Dasher forming
Lancexxx-I used a tapered button(Redding) and opened mine up to 6.5. Put them in the Dasher die to about 60% of mouth to the shoulder(work the empty case till you get it right); load a dummy til you get a chamber mark on the bullet. Load'em and shoot! I load about a 2g under max with the powder I THINK will work; i.e. doing some load development at the same time. Never had a problem. Good luck! V/R Greg
Lancexxx-I used a tapered button(Redding) and opened mine up to 6.5. Put them in the Dasher die to about 60% of mouth to the shoulder(work the empty case till you get it right); load a dummy til you get a chamber mark on the bullet. Load'em and shoot! I load about a 2g under max with the powder I THINK will work; i.e. doing some load development at the same time. Never had a problem. Good luck! V/R Greg
DasherJohn and Chisolm
If you use a bushing die and its working you have no worries.What happens to alot of us is the bushings will normaly only size about 0.005 in diameter before they will collapse a neck.With a good outside chamfer more of your cases will survive.My biggest 6mm bushing is 0.267 so when you run a 6.5 mm expandiron inside the 6BR neck you are asking the bushing to do alot of work.
I like the false shoulder and the cream of wheat because I'm not using up alot of barrel time making brass.
Waterboy
If you use a bushing die and its working you have no worries.What happens to alot of us is the bushings will normaly only size about 0.005 in diameter before they will collapse a neck.With a good outside chamfer more of your cases will survive.My biggest 6mm bushing is 0.267 so when you run a 6.5 mm expandiron inside the 6BR neck you are asking the bushing to do alot of work.
I like the false shoulder and the cream of wheat because I'm not using up alot of barrel time making brass.
Waterboy
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lancexxx
Guest
So, from what you guys are saying jammed hard into the lands with a lot on neck tension doesn't work.
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lancexxx
Guest
If I go the expanding way can I use a full length bushing die. The die is a newlon being cut by the smith
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lancexxx
Guest
Also go with tight neck at .262 or no turn at .272. That is my choices from the smith.
It "works" it just makes crooked cases. Like I said, a lot of guys are happy with it.
Test it yourself....... make up a dummy round with a fired primer. Drop the hammer on it. See does the bullet move.... (it does)
Now glue it in place, JB Weld works OK if your rough everything up and put it together at about 150 degrees. Drop the hammer on it and see if it moves.... (it does)
So NOW, try to kill a couple primers by soaking them in Kroil. They'll probably not fire. Make up a dummy and drop the hammer on an unfired primer to see stuff REALLY move......
You can't stop the case from moving unless you false shoulder. If you're one of those who're OK with that then life will be easier for you.
If NOT....... false shoulder.
al
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dasher john
Guest
I've always false shouldered when fire forming but was unaware that my S type F/L bushing die was not the ideal tool to neck back down. Thanks for the info! I'll be f/f brass over the winter. What do you suggest be used to neck back down... Neil Jones custom die? I am also looking for suggestions/reccomendations on concentricity gauges... Sinclair, the new Hornady (if you can find one of them in stock somewhere).
Thanks again,
John
Thanks again,
John
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carl hansen
Guest
In reducing the expanded neck of my 6BRX brass from an expanded 6.5 I use my 6BR body die to go from the 6.5 to apprximately .274. I then use my bushing die to get to the final diameter that is required . I realize that this is an extra step but it works for me.../carl
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lancexxx
Guest
O.K. what is the best expanding die to use and is it also to just ok to expand up to 25 cal. or do I need to go up to 6.5 also what is the best full length die to do this since my bushing die won't work.