Fast twist longer range PPC

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Alexander

Guest
Hi Folks,

I have a 6ppc that I am thinking of putting another barrel on to shoot 105 hybrids. I know they are a heavy pill for the ppc case, but I want a second barrel that will give this rifle a bit more legs. Thinking of using it out to 4 or maybe 500 yards when the conditions are good.

Has anyone ever experimented with such a thing? Quickload says I shout get about 2650fps out of a 24" barrel, which gives wind bucking surpassing 80 grain 223s, so on paper it seems like it might work.

Any tips or advice?

Thanks
Alexander
 
long PPC

Alexander -

Howdy !

FWIW -

6.5 Arisaka brass has major diameters that would allow forming to a " PPC Long ".

It would be LR primer and .308 bolt face brass, true. If nothing else, forming some trial cases on 6.5 Jap basic could give an good idea
of case capacity & fit in the action.


With regards,
.357Mag
 
Alexander said:
Hi Folks,

I have a 6ppc that I am thinking of putting another barrel on to shoot 105 hybrids. I know they are a heavy pill for the ppc case, but I want a second barrel that will give this rifle a bit more legs. Thinking of using it out to 4 or maybe 500 yards when the conditions are good.

Has anyone ever experimented with such a thing? Quickload says I shout get about 2650fps out of a 24" barrel, which gives wind bucking surpassing 80 grain 223s, so on paper it seems like it might work.

Any tips or advice?

Thanks
Alexander
Click to expand...

Perfectly viable idea.

Go with the 8" or 7.5" twist. Throat long..... like .120-ish??? depending on your choice of bullet, some can be seated clear out with only .050 freebore. What you're trying to do is increase case capacity using the wasted neck space. Make sure you keep neck clearance down to less than .002 inclusive and freebore at .2433-.2435. Don't lissen to any guesser who says otherwise, they've not done it. They'll pule about "safety" because they read about it in some reloading manual. The same manual that says "seating the bullet out to the lands could result in "dangerous pressure!""....they haven't a clue. I'd go with 1*30 leade angle for most bullets.

I know of at least a dozen folks who used to frequent this board who've done it, two of them used to be competitive at 600yds NBRSA, even set some range records. It's a novelty item.... the 6BR will best it by 100fps and the 6X47L by 350fps as dedicated comp rifles......but entirely legitimate as such.

It will beat a 308 at 600yds

Incidental fun-fact, the 6BR WILL NOT beat the 6PPC for velocity with 66-70's!!!

opinionby
al
 
BTW obvious caveats apply...... DO NOT EVER force a loaded round into your new creation unless ye ABSOLUTELY KNOW FOR CERTAIN that it's the "long-seated bullet" that's interfering.......in other words, KNOW your clearances. IMO it's hoovis, perhaps even mandatory to try each and every empty case in the chamber prior to firing lest one be inadvertently long or thick. This gets a liddle tricky when one is initially forming one's cases. IMO there's only one correct way to effect this. Neck down for JAM-FIT for first firing and fireform WITH NO BULLET for safety's sake. Use pistol or shottygun powder and NO BULLET to safely make good, straight, long-lasting (100 firings plus) cases.

When playing with these tight tolerances it's also to your advantage that you use a gunsmith who locates/aligns the throat and prebores prior to chambering. Just hogging out a chamber using the old method of jamming the reamer in "between centers" while pumping the coolant to 'er will nearly always result in a usable but wallowed chamber and throat. In other words your clearances will be buggered and it is my considered opinion that fit, close tolerances and closer fitment, is the single most important ingredient of this setup. Close second being that the chamber be lined up coaxially with the actual pitch of the bore at the throat.

It is also my opinion that it'll be in your best interest to throat separately, by hand, using a dedicated uni-throater (135.00) so's you can play with it. In the end you may find that some VLD's like to be jumped and having the ability to increase capacity is useful.

SAFETY FIRST

fun second

SAFETY-SAFETY-SAFETY, there aint no rule book here, no "SAAMI Governing Body" and no reloading manual....... efficient pressures will be so far out of the manuals (and Quickload parameters) that you'll need to do your own governing.

Just like with the conventional 6PPC :)
 
I shoot a 6x45.Take a look at the 95 SMK. .500 bc on the new tipped and .490 on the older hp. With the PPC case
expect 2800+. H4895 is a good place to start, but there are lots of applicable powders. Also take a look at the 6mm Fat Rat. 6BR performance on a PPC bolt face. Have fun!
 
My Experience

I shoot ghog matches at 500 yds.and after having success with a regular PPC at that distance with 13.5 twist and 68 gr. bullets I tried an 8 twist with 105 gr. It shot great at 100 yds. At 300 it shoot inch groups one day and 4 inch groups the next. Same results at 500 yds. Tried different powders but same results, figured I was on the edge velocity wise. I moved on to a 6BRX shooting out to 1000 yd. and have never looked back. Just too little horsepower I think.
 
.357Mag said:
Alexander -

Howdy !

FWIW -

6.5 Arisaka brass has major diameters that would allow forming to a " PPC Long ".

It would be LR primer and .308 bolt face brass, true. If nothing else, forming some trial cases on 6.5 Jap basic could give an good idea
of case capacity & fit in the action.


With regards,
.357Mag
Click to expand...

The Arisaka Brass marketed by Norma is really bad stuff.

Years ago, I developed a case based on the 6.5 necked up to 30 cal for HBR. I called it the "30 JakieSaki". The Norma I had was from an earier time, and was excellent. I laid it down for a year, and when I picked it back up, I ordered some new Norma to make new cases.

What I got did not resemble the earlier Norma in color, or quality. The stuff was terrible. I had originally had the reamer ground for a .330 neck, they cleaned up great. Most of the new ones were so far out that I would have had to have the reamer ground to a .228 neck to even get them to cut round. Upon section in some cases, the wall thickness variation was evident throughout the case.

I think Norma was contracting them out to some other manufacture, probably a mid Eastern former Soviet Block Plant.
 
Last edited:
Alexander said:
Hi Folks,

I have a 6ppc that I am thinking of putting another barrel on to shoot 105 hybrids. I know they are a heavy pill for the ppc case, but I want a second barrel that will give this rifle a bit more legs. Thinking of using it out to 4 or maybe 500 yards when the conditions are good.

Has anyone ever experimented with such a thing? Quickload says I shout get about 2650fps out of a 24" barrel, which gives wind bucking surpassing 80 grain 223s, so on paper it seems like it might work.

Any tips or advice?

Thanks
Alexander
Click to expand...

I have not done this myself but know a fellow that has. If you have your own ppc reamer you dont need to change a thing just use a 1-8" or 1-9" twist barrel, forget about the 105's and use Berger 95gr VLD's (they have a significantly shorter bearing surface than the 105's but still have plenty of B.C. for shots well past 500 yards) only thing you will need to change is your seater die and use N135 instead of N133.
 
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