Eley Batch Testing

velocity

Why interest in the velocity ? - why care about if the speed is 1056 or 1071. I had both above Tenex Eps hitting the head of a nail. What matters is the smallest possible size !
Cheers, Ken
 
If??????

If it wasn't of interest, Eley wouldn't print it on the label. I have several barrels that like the slower velocity and several the respond well to higher velocities. I recently had to change barrels because I could no long purchase lower velocity. It helps to know this information when purchasing test lots.
 
Eley tenex

Some of those groups had fliers. :( Does this include foulers after cleaning in between 10 shot groups? anyone recognize these lot numbers as good shooters in their gun?
 
Repl. Bbls…

Fred J said:
I have several barrels that like the slower velocity and several the respond well to higher velocities. I recently had to change barrels because I could no long purchase lower velocity. It helps to know this information when purchasing test lots.
Click to expand...

Dumb question, but what characteristics do you define when "ordering" a new barrel because slower velocity ammo is NLA or is this a matter of synchonicity ?
 
"Gimme a good one."

Seriously, I'd say it's just a matter of having to test and see what it likes. I wouldn't imagine you can say something like "I would like to get the best results with ammo in the 1058-1060 range, so please build me a barrel for that." Every barrel/bore/chamber is different, no? My gun isn't likely to get the same results as yours with any given ammo. That's why we all test, to see how our particular gun performs with any given lot/brand.
 
re mesage

varminthunter1 said:
Some of those groups had fliers. :( Does this include foulers after cleaning in between 10 shot groups? anyone recognize these lot numbers as good shooters in their gun?
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No it doesnt, after cleaning they put arpound 20 rounds of anything to bring the barrel back to the sweet spot and then carry on.

just one word i dont want this to cause another argument in this thread if it starts to then i will delete it. I did this to maybe help you guys across the pond to be able to get something that you all seem to cry out for, i have nothing to gain from this what so ever and just felt that it may help by showing you how it works at the Eley Factory and what are able to get hear. i hope that it is of use and maybe you will be able to get the same kind of thing but that is up to you all working together to talk to Zanders. I cant help anymore than that.

AndyD
 
You take what you get

I've had barrel that were of equal length and diameter, produce different speeds and group sizes. One example is a 27"X1" - 4 grove 16.5 twist, would shoot ammo listed at 1060 fps, but would only chronograph at 1035 fps. Another 27"X1" - 6 grove 16 twist, would produce a velocity of 1085 fps. The only thing you can specify when buying a new barrel, is twist rate, finish length and profile, Every barrel will differ when it comes to bore configuration and size. Not all 22 rf barrels are created equal. By knowing this, I can order ammo by lots that will deliver the desired muzzle velocity and produce the tightest groups for my barrels. Although I do not shoot groups, the ability to repeat the POI every shot when moving from bull to bull is essential. That is the one benefit of put the average velocity on the ammo so one can eliminate at lot of costly testing. In other words, not all lots of Eley or Lapua, are Killer Lots in every barrel.
 
You’ll find RWS and Lapua also have testing ranges in Germany. :D
Having read about this for years the smallbore guys all say their guns shoots better in the real world than when it is tested the Eley way. The groups are measured outside edge to outside edge and a 40 shot group around 16mm is regarded as very good. The range record is 15mm

But we have a similar testing setup at the Olympic range in Sydney and in my case I’ve found what works in the tunnel doesn’t always give the best score. I’ve got one lot that gives very average results in the tunnel but has shot more 250’s than all my other lots put together. I’ve found that while some ammo will shoot small groups the point of impact moves around a little, others are not such a small group and but the POI is solid.

I test with action in the stock and clamp the stock and my best 10 shot group, outside edge to outside edge is 6.6mm but I wouldn’t use that lot in match I wanted to win, it just doesn’t produce the scores. The tunnel we have is all electronic (no paper target) plots the location of every shot in the group and is great for playing with your tuner, but I don’t think its ideal for ammo selection and I don’t use it for that anymore.

Peter
 
andyd1179 said:
No it doesnt, after cleaning they put arpound 20 rounds of anything to bring the barrel back to the sweet spot and then carry on.

just one word i dont want this to cause another argument in this thread if it starts to then i will delete it. I did this to maybe help you guys across the pond to be able to get something that you all seem to cry out for, i have nothing to gain from this what so ever and just felt that it may help by showing you how it works at the Eley Factory and what are able to get hear. i hope that it is of use and maybe you will be able to get the same kind of thing but that is up to you all working together to talk to Zanders. I cant help anymore than that.

AndyD
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Andy, your intent and interest in this are to be commended. You should, however, take note that what you read and assume to be the case relative to this forum and what actually IS the case might be quite different. There are quite a few folks that post up here that do not even shoot in a match of any kind. Several of the best shooters in this country will not post here for one reason or another. There are others for which the glass is only 1/2 empty, but in truth the supply of ammo, the overall quality, has never been better, and the fact that there ARE more dealers would have to be a testament to that. The thing that should be remembered is that all the ammo that comes here gets bought and shot and it simply, by the laws of supply and demand, cannot only be to "secret list" folks. take a moment to review the various organizations, the scores which have continued to improve. All experimentaion-testing is probably good but you might be trying to solve a non-existing issue.
 
Are you kidding?

Tim, Where can one go in this country to have the same test type of batch testing done? Then buy the lot that tested best in your rifle.

Sure one can shoot a few groups from a few lots and hope to select the best you were offered, but that is a far cry from the service shooters in the UK receive from Eley!

Tim, let's be real we have nothing like that available. Be honest, if you saw those groups with the fliers that were on Andy's report fired from your rifle you would not even think about buying a case of that lot of ammo . I'm sure those are the only type of lots I've ever been able to buy.

I've shot too many 248 targets with one 8 and had that odd flier that seems to only happen once or twice a target.

If you think this ammo thing isn't a problem then you must be hooked up somehow!!

I would like to see everyone have this type of service available to them wouldn't you!!!
 
Andy, Thanks for the information. I believe it's a good concept, BUT take a look at the AMOUNT of Eley that came in not enough to go around and there will be more shipments to come, how much of what we don't know until it arrives. Then there was the Olympics this year, I'm sure the manufactures had their plate full.

I've never had a problem finding something that will shoot in my rifle, and even though their wasn't a lot of Eley that came in, i still managed to find some and no I'm not on any one's secret list. It's there if you make the calls. I was one of those that complained about the ammo going to certain folks, but I have no proof just here say, so I quit worrying about it. Life is to short and aren't we suppose to have fun. The more I was complaining the less enjoyment there was in my shooting. It always seems to work out fine when I let go of the what ifs and the rest of the negativity.

Take Care,

Joe
 
I doubt you’d get this in the US but if you really want to do it, workout how much you spend on testing and then look at what a cheap plane ticket to London costs, you might find it’s cheaper to get on a plane. I hear DJ is going to the UK championships next year and I’m sure a trip to the Eley factory will be on the agenda.

Andy,
This might be a way of getting a few overseas shooters to your championships.
 
Keith23 said:
Tim, Where can one go in this country to have the same test type of batch testing done? Then buy the lot that tested best in your rifle.

Sure one can shoot a few groups from a few lots and hope to select the best you were offered, but that is a far cry from the service shooters in the UK receive from Eley!

Tim, let's be real we have nothing like that available. Be honest, if you saw those groups with the fliers that were on Andy's report fired from your rifle you would not even think about buying a case of that lot of ammo . I'm sure those are the only type of lots I've ever been able to buy.

I've shot too many 248 targets with one 8 and had that odd flier that seems to only happen once or twice a target.

If you think this ammo thing isn't a problem then you must be hooked up somehow!!

I would like to see everyone have this type of service available to them wouldn't you!!!
Click to expand...

Of course those fliers must be the ammo, can't be anything else, could not possibly be ,scope, bbl, stock, bedding, rest, bad cleaning, wind. ignition, or possibly you? I'm north of you, shoot in lots of matches, with lots of folks that regularly shoot lots of 250's and N O N E of them are on a secret list, cannot say it any plainer Keith. By the way, you got one of the best sources of ammo on the planet right in your own state and they also have no secret list either.
By the way you might also want to check in with all the Calfee test posts on the newer ELEY and how so much of it is good, the best ever, take note of all the different lot numbers and the part about nothing really bad, etc., etc.
 
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Why are people assuming that fliers on his targets from his rifle mean that the lot in question is at fault for them? How can you be sure it isn't simply because that lot doesn't fit that chamber as well as the other lots that don't show fliers? How can you be sure that if you take that lot that showed fliers with his rifle that you will also have fliers? Your chamber isn't the same as his. Your bore isn't the same as his. There are a great amount of variables that will be different in your rifle compared to his. Fliers in the targets are not necessarily because of the ammo. They could be, but there's nothing saying it is without a doubt the ammo's fault. How come you're forgetting that this is why you lot test in the first place? To find out what works well in your gun. And what works well in your gun isn't necessarily going to work well in any other gun on the planet. I've got ammo that drops lots of shots, up to 4.5" at 50 yards, in one gun, and the same ammo in another gun shoots around 1/4" and never goes above 1/2" unless there's outside influence. And the first gun will shoot the same kind of 1/4" to 1/2" groups with different ammo, so the gun's fine. It just doesn't like the first ammo.
 
RE: Messages

the only thing more that i can add to this is that Eley were packed solid with all the Olympic teams traveling to Eley to batch test this year.
some of you have said that not enough ammo comes into the country, well this is something that you need to take to the dealers and to Zanders. It sounds like that Zandes need to increase volume to be able to sell more, if this happens then choice would be higher.
I only started this thread because it sounds like not enough ammo comes over the pond, well you guys need to pass this to Zanders. if all the ammo goes in as couple of days then there is something wrong with that and Zanders need to be aware of that fact. Eley have offered this service for years and it does work. the flyers do show up on the charts and of course i have not gone with that ammo. its based on the overall 10 shots placed over each other that give the final verdict. the print outs show all the detail of every batch and it is done under controled conditions, that means no wind, no movement of rifle, no difference in temperature and also the same amount of time is taken between each shot, that is why they do the work of putting the shots through as they are used to doing this on a daily basis.
i just put this out as useful info as it seemed that none or most were not aware of this service, what you do with this info is up to you individualy or as agroup.

AndyD
 
Tim /Shorty

If I said something that took either of you out of your comfort zone I did not intend to. It is not my place to argue back and forth with anyone on this or any other forum.

Tim you mentioned secret list. I have no idea if there is such a list. If there is or not has nothing to do with batch testing.

Both of you made good points and those points are well taken about there being many reasons other than ammo for fliers. Certainly no argument there.

Batch testing will not cure all our shooting problems but it would certainly tell us some very good info to base our purchases on, and save a lot of money thrown away trying to make rifles (barreled actions) shoot that simply will not shoot regardless of the ammo, scopes, bedding, etc, etc.

If you do not see the value of having Eley's batch testing program available in this country, then I'm sure I'm not going to convince you.

I think there is great value in trying to convince Zander's to step up and let U.S. customers have the same access to batch testing as shooters in the UK.

I have no idea how large the market for Eley match ammo is in this country but I would think it is at least as large as it is in the UK. So why can't we have the same service available?
 
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Expect this

Eley might probably tell you, that all you have to do, is load up your guns you want to test and a suitcase or two with clothing and buy yourself a ticket to England, where you would rent a car or truck,(Depends on how many guns and suit cases you take) get a hotel for the duration and reserve your place in line at the testing facility. Make you you take loads of money as well, as everyone you come in contact with, will most likely desire a fancy tip from a wealthy Yank. That's all there is to it, why should any distributer, go out of their way to duplicate this service. Then again, they just might not suggest that. Looks like we have to live with the unbalanced distribution and test what we can get, or just buy blind and hope you don't have to get a dealers licaence and tax permit to sell off everything that doesn't shoot in your barrel.
 
Fred

Don't think Eley will ask us to bring our guns to the UK. Taking guns to the UK isn't easy! When I was in the service I took my guns to the UK. I had to buy an import permit that took nearly six months, and it was rushed because I was on U.S. military orders! When the guns arrived they were taken to the local police barracks and kept in their vault. When I wanted to use them (for a match) I had to signed them out and return them. The only way I could sign them out was to explain where I was going with them and when they would be returned. Oh yea, they also controlled my ammo. BTW, I did well in the UK, won lots matches, not so well in Germany, that was another story. If you are part of a team or something I'm sure there are work a rounds, but for an individual I think it would be a hard task indeed to take multiple guns into the UK.

I don't think we can count on help from Zander's for batch testing or anything else for that matter. They haven't returned my email so I called them today, not about this subject, but to try to obtain a certain lot of ammo. They didn't have it, didn't know where I could get it, and then they floored me, with the statement that they don't keep records on where they send any particular lot numbers of ammo. When I proclaimed my surprise the nice lady hung up on me! Don't know if she hung up on purpose or not but the phone certainly went dead!

Without help directly from Eley I think this is a dead issue.

Hey Shorty, I'll bite!!! What is a HPS Gemini test rig???
 
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