Eley Batch Testing

A

andyd1179

Guest
I have only been shooting benchrest for the last couple of years here in the UK and have normally bought my ammo from my local gun dealer. But this year I went to Eley’s factory in the midlands to batch test. We all know that different ammo suits different barrels even if you are using some other brand.
So batch testing, what happens? On the day there will 8 or 10 batches to shoot and Eley have their ballistic tunnels which are 50m and able to do two rifles at one time. They will shoot 10 shots from each batch and in between the process clean the rifle barrel. Then from that they will repeat the process with the best six or so batches. From that you get an individual show of each of the shots taken then and overall from all the shots taken from each batch.
From this you can see which the best batch for your rifle is. Over 700 rounds are put through your rifle on the day and cost is £30 for the privilege. This is only done with Tenex red box and you have to purchase a minimum of 5,000 rounds.
The ammo is consistent and I have so far out of the 1,000 shot so far have not had any flyers.

What’s my point to all this? I have seen the difficulty for you guys in the States to get hold of the good quality ammo that comes in through Zanders. I have put it to my contact at Eley to see if Zanders can offer shooters the same kind of service that we get here in the UK. Yes it is only for Tenex but once you have been batch testing you know that you are getting the ammo that is best for your barrel, and is going to make your shooting the best possible and worth the money you are spending.

The dealers don’t lose out as the ammo is sent to your local dealer but your name is on it. You will be given the data and the batch number for the ammo. And the dealer will still make their profit as usual.

For this to happen you need to work as a group with the dealers and ask Zanders to offer you this kind of service, its good business for them, the dealers and more important you the shooter, Eley is promoting heavily its service here in the UK and I can’t see why it can’t happen in the States. The benefits is ammo that your barrel loves and is consistent, once you have tried batch testing in the proper way you won’t want to buy off the shelf again. The thing to remember is that one batch that shoots well now and may not shoot as good the next time you go for it; it all depends on the day of batch testing.

AndyD
 
So you hand over your rifle and wait to see what they say shoots best from it? That is, you don't shoot your rifle, they do? If so, any details on the whats/hows/etc?
 
RE: last

you are there all the time watching what goes on and you get the data report so you see everything and make the choice yourself. they have special clamps to hold the barrel and its done with out the stock or barrel tuner fitted. if you have any other questions i would be happy to answer.
here is a link for details on the range batch testing: http://www.eley.co.uk/customer-range.aspx.

AndyD
 
Ah, I see, so it sounds like having your rifle set up with the barrel and action free floated with the barrel clamped right near the action. Have I got that right? Interesting. Someone physically pulling the trigger? Or do they have some mechanism for that, too? Sounds like the setup would remove human error and/or any meaningful influence anyway. Cool stuff!
 
RE last

your right someone does pull the trigger each time and there is no room fo error so you get the best conditions to get the best ammo.

AndyD
 
Eley ammo testing

Andy,

Thank you so much for posting this information. I don't think any one over here had any idea this service was available in the UK.

Buying ammo here in the states is a nerve wrecking experience. Many of us order a couple of lots for testing, shoot it as soon as we can when it arrives and then try to place an order for what we think shoots best in our rifle. Many times, just to learn there is no more of that lot available.

A case (5000 rounds) of ammo (Eley Black box) cost as much as three barrels!! If you are stuck with a case of ammo that don't shoot in your rifle you can even be tempted to change your barrel, hoping your ammo will work better in another barrel.

If we could get the service shooters in the UK have it would be wonderful!!

Thanks again for the information and please post any data you have on how Eley determines what they label as Red box, verse Black box, verse Club!!

Most shoots here shoot black box because we can't see that red box is better. Perhaps it is, but our (my) testing methods can't detect it????
 
RE: Last

It was reason for writing this post after reading the problems that you guys in the States have with getting the right ammo for your rifle. As to how Eley grade their ammo from all the different boxes they do, I think that is a bit of a secret but as you can see from the link I put for Eley Range, they have controlled tunnels to shoot through and I know that they have the same thing for the grading.
Since the Olympics being held this year is was hard to get an appointment to go batch testing as all the teams from around the world came to Eley to batch test. This in itself shows the reason for this process for batch testing.
My current batch speed is 1067 and I have shot black box which was 1059, the black box was ok but I did have some flyers at times and maybe have to do more work to get the right settings to shoot the ammo. With my current ammo I have to do less work, I know when changing from shooting 25yd to 50m I just have to move 6 clicks. The black box was more work and you don’t feel that confident and maybe use more ammo to get it right.
When batch testing you have a screen and can see the groups being made, it’s all electronic and while watching you can see a good group forming and then you one flying off, it’s not scientific. When they take a break to clean the barrel its surprising how much ammo it takes to get the barrel to come back into the zone, I’m talking about 15 -20 rounds before it’s back in the zone. What I have learnt from that is to use some cheap ammo to put through when you have just cleaned your barrel.
For the £30 they put around 700 rounds through your barrel to find the right batch out of the ones that are on offer on the day, will I be using the same speed next time? That I don’t know, maybe I will get even better ammo than I currently have, but it will never be worse. You get a complete print out of all the shots taken and the overall average from the different batches, from that you decide which batch to go with. The barrel and action is clamped into a vice type machine so there is no wind factors, temperature or movement to change how each batch is shot.
It’s a great service but it is done only for the Tenex not the Match or other boxes, Tenex is the ultimate ammo that Eley do so on the bases of that they only do the service for it.
My rifle is a factory Anschutz’s 1913 and is just a year old, I did well in Milan with the ammo, what let me down is being able to read the wind and the thermals which is something we just don’t get here in the UK. But since being back I have been hitting nothing less than 249 or 250 and now I have a set of Dan Killough wind flags I am really on the ball now.

Zanders holds the key to you guys in the States to getting the best ammo for your rifle as they all shoot different and like different batches. If you got together to through your associations or whatever to get them to offer you the same kind of service that we have here you would be on a roll and it would maybe help stop the arguments’ that have been happening on here about suppliers getting the best of the best. They would not lose out as the ammo would be sent to your local dealer, everyone is a winner.

AndyD
 
Batch testing

How about guys?

Is it worth pursuing or does everyone think those in charge (Zanders) have such a lock we would be wasting our time????

Let's here it from our dealers, match directors, and you too Wilbur!!!
 
Killough Sports

Danny has a range set up so you can test and purchase at his Range in Winters, TX.
 
re: last

I understand Danny has a range but only gets a fraction of all the ammo that comes into the USA. It is Zanders that you want to go after as they are the importers and have all the ammo to choose from and be able to batch test from.
if you have read my post and looked at Eley website you would understand that you would have more choice. Danny and others would not lose out financially as the ammo would be sent to them and he would still get his profit but you would get the right ammo for your rifle.

AndyD
 
Danny wouldn't mind at all but that would loose the lock that Bob has on "his" ammo.
 
how about just sending 3 guns over to eley

let them test it and choose 1 lot number that works for each gun.

email or fax the results and let you have 48 hours to choose the ammo that works,

some canadians go over with one guy and a bunch of rifles to test.

Seems to me that if you build 1 or 2 rifles on turbos, halls, swindlehursts you could send them over to test, buy 50K ammo for each gun

and be done


SIMPLE OR NOT ??

the guys in the states are not going to set this up nohow


jefferson
 
Jefferson

I think you are right. When you have a lock on things why would you want to change it.

A program such as they have in the UK could only happen here if Eley themselves pushed it. Too few people have control here. If this was a larger market and there were more competition, maybe it would be different.

An elite few in the states controls Eley ammo availability and they will keep it the way it is. As long as it fits their purpose.

I get my ammo from Dan and he is great to deal with but I'm sure he is not in a position to do the type of testing they do in the UK, especially for the price.

Good luck with shipping your guns to the UK!!
 
Eley batch testing

Thanks for the info. Could you share a little more about the results of your testing? How much difference in accuracy was there between lots in your rifle? Do you think that if they had repeated the test, the results would have been the same? What group sizes did your rifle shoot? What cleaning procedure did they use between lots? Do you think that you would have picked the same lot if you had tested the complete rifle rather than just the barreled receiver as they did? What size groups does that lot shoot when you shoot it?
 
batch testing info

for those that are interesdted i have put a PDF file showing results from Batch Testiing at Eley so you get an idea of what you get for your money and the vsalue of doing this. i9 hope that you find it useful.

AndyD
 

Attachments

  • batch testing.pdf
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Andy,
What is kind of interesting is that Eley tested only 1 lot off the #1 and#2machines, a whole bunch off the #3 machine, 3 lots off the #4 machine and none off the #5.Looks kind of like they knew in advance your gun was going to like #3 machine best. I will say that my gun (Anschutz) seems to prefer the #3 and #4 machines as well.
Steve
 
RE: Last

the only thing i can say Steve is that they had not seen my rifle before and we went straight through to the range and they had all the batches for the day on the shelf. i must stress that it's a choice of what is available on the day. what i would say is that for people that go down this route have the chance to try the best that they have, that is why you have to pay for the use, but i hope that it gives you guys an insight in how it works. I have spoken to Dan today and he is really interested in maybe looking at this service but its Zanders that you have to convince to offer you it. personally i think it would be good for them and everyone else, but like i say you need to get together to start talks with Zanders.

AndyD
 
To all

Since it appears none of our dealers or match directors are interested, I've e-mailed Zander's directly.

I included a link to this thread so they can see what is being discussed. I will advise if I receive a reply.
 
Velocity

Andy:
What would have been interesting, is the velocity of the different lots. We often get a different number in our personal barrels, that what's published on the box.
 
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