Does Krieger Still Cryogenic Treat Their Barrels

[antelopedundee]

I did not say a surcharge will make a Hummer bbl. You implied that.

No to your second question. If they could what would you pay? Or anyone else, for that matter.

Can Shilen make select match barrels at will? Not saying that a select match will necessarily be a hummer.

So what was the point of the $100 extra comment? If the barrel maker spent $100 extra for tooling and you got a "shooter" then you wouldn't care about his extra $100 cost?

 

[Dave Coots]

Can Shilen make select match barrels at will? Not saying that a select match will necessarily be a hummer.

So what was the point of the $100 extra comment? If the barrel maker spent $100 extra for tooling and you got a "shooter" then you wouldn't care about his extra $100 cost?

That was meant for brickeye when he spoke about the cost of tooling. The $100 was just an example. I wouldn't mind spending extra for tooling if thats what it took to actually make barrels Shooters. Doesn't really make my day to throw a Dud chambered bbl in the pile.

 

[antelopedundee]

That was meant for brickeye when he spoke about the cost of tooling. The $100 was just an example. I wouldn't mind spending extra for tooling if thats what it took to actually make barrels Shooters. Doesn't really make my day to throw a Dud chambered bbl in the pile.

ok gotchya

 

[brcman]

"Doesn't really make my day to throw a Dud chambered bbl in the pile." The above quote by Dave Coots, maybe not but it sure looked like it made your day when you threw that barrel down into the woods at the St. Louis range!

 

[Dave Coots]

Come On Wayne

"Doesn't really make my day to throw a Dud chambered bbl in the pile." The above quote by Dave Coots, maybe not but it sure looked like it made your day when you threw that barrel down into the woods at the St. Louis range!

Can't we all just get along??? Ron had a $50 bounty on that barrel but I must have made a good toss...no one ever found it. The barrel whistling through the air sounds neat. Should be an Olympic Event>>>>>

Attached is a pic of the new secret Dirt Lapping procedure a friend uses. Name withheld to protect the innocent.

Later
Dave

 

[jackie schmidt]

I would like to have the Unlimited barrel that Dave had at the Nationals in Phoenix a few years ago. That had to be one of the best shooting Barrels I ever saw.

 

[Lou Murdica]

If I remember this right back quite a few years ago there was a lawsuit on a patent freezing barrels . Krieger used to freeze them after the Rifling was in if I remember. The Patent was on a rifle barrel but they could freeze it before the rifling and after the hole drilled and not infringe on the patent .

 

[Dave Coots]

I would like to have the Unlimited barrel that Dave had at the Nationals in Phoenix a few years ago. That had to be one of the best shooting Barrels I ever saw.

Once in a lifetime bbl for me Jackie. 29.4gr Lt32. Shoot 25 cases and an agg and a half and they were junk. Tony Larson built 3 of this model. Dave Dowd holds World Records with one of the others.He also won the Grand at the Super Shoot with it a couple years ago.

 

[markharp]

Once in a lifetime bbl for me Jackie. 29.4gr Lt32. Shoot 25 cases and an agg and a half and they were junk. Tony Larson built 3 of this model. Dave Dowd holds World Records with one of the others.

Dowd sold me his rail a couple of years ago. Includes action, scope, 2,000 bullets, and 4 jugs of 133. $1,000. I said I will take it!

He said, “drive to my home in 25 years and you can pick it up”.

23 to go Dowd, I’m counting!

Mark

 

[markharp]

Can't we all just get along??? Ron had a $50 bounty on that barrel but I must have made a good toss...no one ever found it. The barrel whistling through the air sounds neat. Should be an Olympic Event>>>>>

Attached is a pic of the new secret Dirt Lapping procedure a friend uses. Name withheld to protect the innocent.

Later
Dave

“Dirt lapping” That’s is funny!

It’s taking all of the personal discipline I have not to not to ID this leading edge master of accuracy innovation!

 

[msalm]

I remember an earlier account of Krieger using cryo, and it was done before any other operation other than cutting the stock to length. Mentioned in the conversation was that by cryo treating the steel before the drilling operation they reduced their scrap rate by a substantial amount, meaning the holes were straighter. Apparently before using this method they were scrapping a fair percentage due to hole runout on the blank. May not be accurate but I remember 15-20% going down to maybe 2%.

 

[jackie schmidt]

I remember an earlier account of Krieger using cryo, and it was done before any other operation other than cutting the stock to length. Mentioned in the conversation was that by cryo treating the steel before the drilling operation they reduced their scrap rate by a substantial amount, meaning the holes were straighter. Apparently before using this method they were scrapping a fair percentage due to hole runout on the blank. May not be accurate but I remember 15-20% going down to maybe 2%.

In simple terms, all a Cryo Treating does is help complete the transformation from Austenite to Martensite in steels that respond to heat treating processes. There is more involved than simply tossing a part into a vat of liquid nitrogen.

From what I can gather, the process involves bringing the part down, in increments, to the minus 325 below zero F, holding it there for a specific time, then bringing it back up in increments, the final stage is then bringing the part to 300 degrees F in an oven, then cool to room temperature.

The grain structure before and after Cryo Treating can be confirmed under a electron microscope. The improvements in machinability are not anecdotal, multitudes of industries are using the process and have hard data in the form of increased tool life resulting in a higher profit margin.

Any other claims tend to be anecdotal. Many gear manufacturers and other industries that manufacture high stressed parts are reporting longer life in various parts used in high stress rotating and reciprocating assemblies.

 

[alinwa]

Well said Jackie, very well said.

 

[JDMock]

I was told by a "high" official at Krieger that they received a letter from the CRYO folks' lawyer that they should cease and desist with the cryo treating of barrels. They apparently did stop the 2nd treatment of the "barrel" but continue to treat the bar of steel in order to make it machine better. This information is several years old and things may have changed since I received it. Good shooting...James

 

[Dave Coots]

Cryoing Wear Parts

Several years ago one of our equipment suppliers was touting the benefits of cryoing wear parts on our crushing equipment, benefits being extended wear life. They explained reduced labor cost changing out parts, ect. The salesman had some golf balls that had been frozen. He dropped a non treated and a treated ball from the same distance and the treated ball bounced much higher that the non treated. When you hit the treated ball with a golf club it was like hitting a rock. Also illegal. Anyhow we gave it a try on some parts. The problem was too many variables to do a good comparison. Sometimes you are working a different area of the pit and the ledge wears the parts different. Also, dry material doesn't wear the parts as much as wet or damp material. After a couple of sets in one of the crushers we decided there was no advantage to offset the increased cost of cryoing the part.

And just so you know Francis, when we dropped a treated and non treated 300# part they both bounced about the same.

Later
Dave

 

[Butch Lambert]

Sever years ago one of our equipment suppliers was touting the benefits of cryoing wear parts on our crushing equipment, benefits being extended wear life. They explained reduced labor cost changing out parts, ect. The salesman had some golf balls that had been frozen. He dropped a non treated and a treated ball from the same distance and the treated ball bounced much higher that the non treated. When you hit the treated ball with a golf club it was like hitting a rock. Also illegal. Anyhow we gave it a try on some parts. The problem was too many variables to do a good comparison. Sometimes you are working a different area of the pit and the ledge wears the parts different. Also, dry material doesn't wear the parts as much as wet or damp material. After a couple of sets in one of the crushers we decided there was no advantage to offset the increased cost of cryoing the part.

And just so you know Francis, when we dropped a treated and non treated 300# part they both bounced about the same.

Later
Dave

Chuckle chuckle! Great test Dave.

 

[msalm]

I've had a few barrels cryo treated in the past. One was only 'because'. It was the first barrel I chambered myself and I took a SM Shilen unturned 7mm blank and turned it to a sporter weight and chambered in 280 Ackley. This was because at the time I wanted to do 'everything'... now I let the makers do that terrible job. I assembled and shot the rifle then cryo'd it afterwards. It didn't shoot any different (very well in the first place), but I did feel a difference when cleaning. It seemed 'smoother' when running a tight patch down the bore. This may have been from my exuberance and blind faith that it 'had' to be a good thing.

The second time was for a specific purpose of trying to save a Win 70 featherweight in 7mm-08 my father owned (and still does). It shot terrible groups, about 3 MOA and I pillar bedded it and floated the barrel. After that it was hell just trying to sight it in. Floating the barrel and relieving the forend pressure did not help things at all, the rifle would start on center and by round 3 was moving and by round 5 would be 6" high and to the right. So I pulled the barrel and had it cryo'd. Solved the walking issue and was able to zero the rifle but accuracy was still pretty poor. Several years later I rebarreled it. I had a friend Dan Muller make a new barrel for it and I chambered it in the same 7mm-08....didn't bother cryo'ing that one of course and it is still shooting fantastic. Easy MOA or under with whatever loads I reload for his annual deer hunt.

I have a local guy (Badger Cryogenics) that does this. He explained to me the process is 3 complete cycles of the -300 to +300 degrees, very slowly, over a 24hour period, not just one. It does stress relieve and 'normalize' the steel. Redistributing or 'evening out' the molecular structure of the steel. I do see a difference in cutting the steel as I have gotten cut blanks of steel and had them cryo'd before the barrel maker drilled and cut the rifling back when Dan was at Rock Creek. I haven't bothered with it for several years as the barrels I get from the makers all have shot as well as I needed. If I was shooting for the last tenth of accuracy, I might entertain the thought again...I certainly don't believe it hurts anything, it's just hard to prove it definitively helps!

 

[Butch Lambert]

Something that some of you may not know. There is Cryo -325deg with liquid nitrogen or deep cryo -450 deg with liquid helium.
A place to check is https://www.metal-wear.com/