Dave Manson "Blueprinting" Tooling Question

R

remmy700

Guest
I would like to know if anyone uses Dave Manson "Blueprinting" tooling.

I believe he sells a Remington 700 kit which includes cutting tools for: Recutting action threads 0.010" oversize, a bolt lug truing tool and a reamer for increasing the recoil lug diameter to take the over sized barrel shank.

I realise that this system is beyond the conventional "lathe methods" but just wanted to see what others think.

Many thanks

Colin
 
It will be better than what you have

remmy700 said:
I would like to know if anyone uses Dave Manson "Blueprinting" tooling.

I believe he sells a Remington 700 kit which includes cutting tools for: Recutting action threads 0.010" oversize, a bolt lug truing tool and a reamer for increasing the recoil lug diameter to take the over sized barrel shank.

I realise that this system is beyond the conventional "lathe methods" but just wanted to see what others think.

Many thanks

Colin
Click to expand...
,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

But never as good as if properly centered and trued in lathe using a single point tool.

Shoot well
Peter
 
I've used one for several years and I doubt anybody below the shooter's level of the very best benchrest shooters could tell the difference between it and the 'other' method.
They may not can tell any difference. It works.
 
MColeman said:
I've used one for several years and I doubt anybody below the shooter's level of the very best benchrest shooters could tell the difference between it and the 'other' method.
They may not can tell any difference. It works.
Click to expand...

I would say that it probably requires less skill and set up to achieve as good or even better results than lathing ...

... do you cut the over size thread or clean up the standard thread?
 
Last edited by a moderator:
Dennis
Thanks for the reply, the thread chaser is 1.075" which makes the major thread diameter 0.010" over normal dimension.
From reading the instructions it looks like you have to enlarge the threads so as to get the lug tool to fit in the action.

I have never used the tooling (I am just starting out) but I do happen to have the full set as it was recomended to me.

I find Dave Manson very helpful, he is always willing to spend time talking to "newbies" and his explanations are easy to get your head round.
His tooling looks really well made and finished to a high standard.
Cheers

Colin
 
Be Advised Dave Kiff makes a simular tool

The Manson tool was invented in the 1950s by another smith. Be advised the Manson tool uses two tapered bushings to align the mandrel. The Kiff model uses two straight bushings to accomplish the same purpose. You have to purchase different bushings for different bolt race diameters. If you buy the Kiff model midway only sends one bushing with the set.
Rustystud
 
PTG / Kiff Tooling

This is what I went with. You will need several sets of bushings from .701" to .703", two each in .0005" increments. I've used the tooling on several rifles and it's a breeze. I feel that the bolt lugs and face still need truing on a lathe and that’s what I do. I guess you could lap the lugs in but I feel better truing the bolt in the lathe. In one set up I skim cut the bolt face and the rear of the locking lugs. The lock up between the receiver and bolt has been very smooth so far. The tool I'm using is .010" over sized and it cuts the top of the threads off and any taper that may be in the receiver out. It also skim cuts the receiver face and the locking lug recess, all of this in one setup and at the same time. While cutting the locking lug recess, you can see just how much this area is out of square. All of the receivers I've done so far have had one lug longer than the other, the bolt lugs reflected this also.
 
Dennis Sorensen said:
I would say that it probably requires less skill and set up to achieve as good or even better results than lathing ...

... do you cut the over size thread or clean up the standard thread?
Click to expand...
Dennis, I cut the oversize thread but don't ream the recoil lug. I simply thread the tenon to 1.060 as I do a Remington then quit cutting when the action screws on to my liking. That allows you to use the standard recoil lug as it comes from Remington.

Dave is a good guy and his tool works. I called Melvin Forbes soon after I got the kit and described how it worked and then asked Melvin, "Where are the weak points?" Melvin thought for a minute and said, "There aren't any." Now, anybody who knows Melvin can hardly doubt his qualifications. He's been a mentor and good friend to me for over 10 years. If Melvin tells you that a chicken dips snuff you can look under a wing and find a box of Skoal.
 
wnroscoe said:
This is what I went with. You will need several sets of bushings from .701" to .703", two each in .0005" increments. I've used the tooling on several rifles and it's a breeze. I feel that the bolt lugs and face still need truing on a lathe and that’s what I do. I guess you could lap the lugs in but I feel better truing the bolt in the lathe. In one set up I skim cut the bolt face and the rear of the locking lugs. The lock up between the receiver and bolt has been very smooth so far. The tool I'm using is .010" over sized and it cuts the top of the threads off and any taper that may be in the receiver out. It also skim cuts the receiver face and the locking lug recess, all of this in one setup and at the same time. While cutting the locking lug recess, you can see just how much this area is out of square. All of the receivers I've done so far have had one lug longer than the other, the bolt lugs reflected this also.
Click to expand...
The first reamer you use will recut the lug seats into the same plane if you just keep on until you feel the reamer quit cutting. Dave also makes a neat reamer that will reface the bolt face making it perpendicular to the bolt face/threads. It's foolproof. Dave Tooley put me onto this tool. Ask Dave about it.
 
Rustystud said:
The Manson tool was invented in the 1950s by another smith. Be advised the Manson tool uses two tapered bushings to align the mandrel. The Kiff model uses two straight bushings to accomplish the same purpose. You have to purchase different bushings for different bolt race diameters. If you buy the Kiff model midway only sends one bushing with the set.
Rustystud
Click to expand...
Nat, I recently bought the straight bushings to use. Dave Kiff explained that the tapered bushings will always go to the 'weak' side of the hole but the straight bushings will keep things centered better. Makes sense.
 
MColeman said:
The first reamer you use will recut the lug seats into the same plane if you just keep on until you feel the reamer quit cutting. Dave also makes a neat reamer that will reface the bolt face making it perpendicular to the bolt face/threads. It's foolproof. Dave Tooley put me onto this tool. Ask Dave about it.
Click to expand...

That’s what I do, checking as I go. I quit cutting when the lug recess in the receiver is cleaned up, top and bottom.

I have his tooling burr for the bolt face and the tooling block that screws into the receiver. I'm just concerned about the rear of the bolt lugs being on the same plane as the bolt face and receiver lug recesses.
 
I use Manson's tooling

I'm using the same set I bought 6 years ago. Just had the reamer mandrill sharpened last year. I would have done it myself. But...I don't work for Dave anymore. Also, don't be surprise to find a few Remington actions that are tight up front(say .703") and lose a goose in the back(say.710"). A nice Mandrill is great if you can make one to fit the action. That's what I like about the tapered bushing. You are connecting with the part in a specific spot. Your not bending anything to achieve a result. One last thought, It's a Remington and your only gonna get so much accuracy out of it. To much work and you could have bought a Borden or a Pierce.
 
wnroscoe said:
That’s what I do, checking as I go. I quit cutting when the lug recess in the receiver is cleaned up, top and bottom.

I have his tooling burr for the bolt face and the tooling block that screws into the receiver. I'm just concerned about the rear of the bolt lugs being on the same plane as the bolt face and receiver lug recesses.
Click to expand...
Not to worry. When you push the burr against the bolt face it pushes the lugs against their seats. Works like a charm.
 
I've been using the Dave Manson tooling since it first came out and really like how user friendly the process is. I did get Dave Manson to make me up a set of straight bushings to use in the rear of the receiver and feel that it really enhances the accuracy of the setup. The tapered bushings work fine in the front, but in the rear the tapered bushing will align with the bottom of the boltway right over where the trigger mounts and will be forced out of the alignment you need to do a correct job.

If any of you have been following Bill Calfee's writings in Precision Shooting on bolt relaxing, I feel there is another way that is made possible with Dave's bolt facing setup. I lap the lugs into contact with the trigger in place letting the back of the bolt ride up due to the angled sear surfaces. I then use the bolt facing tool to square the bolt face with the lugs in contact and it then does not need to "relax."
 
I've used Dave Manson tooling since right before he went public with it. Remember we're trying to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear here. For that purpose it's great. Tapered bushing vs. straight, we're splitting split hairs here. Use whatever makes you feel good. I've worn out probably 10 taps over the years. Get the threads clean, really clean and use Moly-D for a lube. The tap will last longer.

Another tip. I cut off a 1/4-28 cap screw short enough that it won't interfer with the reamer. You screw that into the front guard screw hole, wrap the receiver ring in aluminum or something and you can hold it in a chuck with very light pressure. The cap screw goes up against one of the jaws and prevents the action from spinning. 100-125 RPM's and push the reamer in by hand. Then run the tap in. Makes for a quick easy job.

Dave
 
Dave

I thought you might surface on this thread.
Remember when you did the "rifle" show at Minsterly a few years ago? (you did my trigger when you were there.)
We came down from Scotland to see you, then you went north to Allerdale to shoot the "royals".

Hope you are well and business is booming!

Regards

Colin
 
Hi Colin

That's been more than a few years ago. Nothing stays the same. Alladale is a different place now. I'm staying busy. I miss the trips over there. I sure miss the Highlands. Enjoyed some good hunting and goods times there. Special place. As a matter of fact my big Stag is looking over my left shoulder right now. I'll make it back over there some day. Probably a trip to Diggle to show my friends there how to shoot. That should get a rise out of a couple of them.

Dave
 
Yeh, there will be a few lathes slowing down today as they all get their guns out to respond to that one for sure!
I am just starting out with a few rebarrel jobs for myself and others, have watched all the AGI dvd's mostly by Darrell H, have read many books and read this forum (which is great for info)most days, will no doubt be pestering you and others as time goes by.
Good to hear that all is well, come and see us sometime.

Col
 
Manson Action Truing Tool

I read this post with great interest. About 3 years ago the same basic post was put on BRC several times. Some of the more recent posters posted then and their post current post are almost complete reversals of what they said years ago.

The tooling has not changed or improved that much. There were clear lines between the folks who defended the Manson Action truing tools and those who said the only way to true and action was with single point tooling and a good rigid action truing jig.

I have almost found it humorus to read some of these post. I wonder is any of these posters have been politically active, because they sure sound like polititions. Hopefully some of you are having a good laugh, I have.

Rustystud
 
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