Copper Fouling 2

Bob,
What powder was Tony shooting when he won most of those points? I am pretty sure that it was not 133. Have you checked to see what he is using to clean with this year? I ask because I have heard that he has made a change, and I would like some independent verification. BTW Bon Ami is feldspar, a relatively soft abrasive.
Boyd
 
Last edited:
Sorry to bring this back up. :)

Ok I know it has been a while but I was finaly able to get some more cleaning products. I bought some Wipe out and some jb paste. Before I tried the wipe out I tried another 20 or so patches through my rifle with both bbs and shooters choice. (10 or each) Their was a slight sign of blue on the patches but I mean slight. Still after looking at the bore with a flashlight the copper was still visable. So then I tried the Wipe out. I let it sit over night 2 different times and now she is clean. When I look at the muzzle the copper is gone. And no more blue on the patches.

So I pulled out a old varmint rifle that I knew was in poor shape and applied wipe out about 5 times and was still comming out dark blue so I used the JB Paste and followed the instructions on the bottle. Cleaned the bore with Shooters choice and then let wipe out sit in the barrel over night. in the morning their was very small signs of blue on the patch. I just got done with the JB Paste again and now the Wipe Out is sitting in the barrel. I will see what happens in the morning and let you know.

A couple questions. First Boyd you said you dont recommend JB paste because of improper cleaning techniques. Just to make sure I am not screwing up my guns what would you recommend?

Next question is their a good way to know if you have carbon build up without a bore scope and What is the best way to remove it from the bore? , Where is it most likely to show up and cause a problem?
 
This Topic Has Been Beat To Death but if you have to ask the question you are obviously having problems. What follow is an excellent example of a regimen that will result in a clean barrel every time. Have been pretty much following this method and I will tell you that the author uses it as well because when we shoot together the always uses the process and products he had outlined below. If you follow this it will clean your barrel completely esp. the carbon ring(with the IOSSO I push the brush into the throat area and turn the brush by hand to help eradicate whatever carbon ring is attempting to form)---I have a bore scope and have verified it too many times to count.




Proper Barrel Break-in
ensures long Barrel Life

Proper barrel break-in procedures are crucial for top accuracy and performance. More barrels are damaged by cleaning rods than by any amount of regular shooting a person may do. If not done correctly, one can do more harm than good.

The barrel break-in technique we endorse, is the “Speedy Method” named after Speedy Gonzalez, owner of S.G.& Y Rifles. Speedy is well known in Benchrest disciplines; national champion, world record holder, and Hall of Fame inductee in the National Benchrest Shooters Association (NBRSA). He has given permission to share with you, his expert advice on the correct method of barrel break-in and cleaning.


Rifle Cleaning the Right Way
Barrel break-in. Many of our customers upon taking delivery of their new rifle or barrel are in a quandary as how to go about breaking in their rifle for maximum life and accuracy. With so much written in magazines these days stating use this, don’t use that, brush, don’t brush...what’s a person to do?? At S.G.& Y. Rifles, we have a unique opportunity to inspect many rifle barrels on a daily basis with our video borescope. Consequently, we see the results of a variety of barrel break-in and cleaning procedures, and most of them leave the rifle owners with their mouth agape when they see the fruits of their misinformed labor on our color monitor. We have seen practically new barrels ruined with less than a hundred rounds shot through them by some of the crazy and sometimes humorous barrel break-in methods. Anyway here goes for what it’s worth.

A. Bore guides- If you don’t have one, get one! Without a good bore guide you are just wasting your time trying to break-in a barrel or cleaning it for that matter. More rifle barrels are destroyed by cleaning without a bore guide than by shooting! There are many types and brands of bore guides available on the market and range in price from $5.00 to $50.00. The only one we recommend is the Lucas two-piece bore guide. They are the best insurance you can buy for that new barrel. All other bore guides in my opinion are only good for keeping the solvents out of the trigger and action.


B. Solvents - We recommend Sweets 7.62 for copper and a *solvent mix of our own (Actually Pat McMillan gave me this formula) for powder fouling and for cleaning/storing your rifle for the next match or season. This Speedy Formula is made as follows:

Mix 2/3 rds. Hoppes No. 9 Plus Black Powder solvent with 1/3rd. Regular Hoppes No. 9 Nitro solvent. Let this mixture set overnight and it will form a sort of gel that adheres very well to the brush and cuts powder fouling to a minimum.

* Note: Butches Boreshine may be substituted for this Speedy formula.


C. Procedure for “Break-in” - Before firing that first shot, clean the barrel as if it had been shot by following these simple steps.

Step 1. Insert Lucas bore guide into receiver and chamber. If you don’t have one stop here and get one, if not, just shoot your rifle and forget trying to take any care of your barrel at all. If you do have one, proceed, and give yourself one “At-A-Boy” for being astute enough to have purchased the proper tools for the job.

Note: One “Aw-Sh*t” wipes out ALL “At-A-Boys”.

Step 2. Run one wet patch of Sweets through the bore and let soak for approximately 30 seconds. Do not patch this out.

Step 3. Next, run the brush through the barrel only enough to expose the entire brush. Yes, I know that you still have 12 more inches of cleaning rod you could push out the end of your barrel but we want to protect that new crown. Also, if that rod hangs out that far, you will eventually start wearing down the rifling at the crown from about 4 to 7 o’clock. This is very bad “JU-JU” for accuracy. OK, back to our next step. Once the brush is exposed, saturate it well with our Speedy Formula or Butch’s Boreshine and SLOWLY run the brush through the barrel 10 complete back and forth passes while keeping the rod as straight as possible. This is when the Lucas bore guide really pays for itself! Remember, the key word is slowly. We are not trying to break any land speed records today. Let this sit a minute or two and proceed to the next step.

Step 4. After you have let the barrel soak for a few moments, saturate a patch with the Speedy Formula or Butch’s Boreshine and pass it through the bore. Follow this with 2 dry patches and then dry the chamber with Brake Kleen or lighter fluid. Next, gently wipe the crown off with a soft cloth and lube your bolt (lets not gall the lugs just yet). Now, your ready to shoot your first shot. Then follow the schedule below to complete your barrel break-in.

1. Clean barrel / lube bolt / 1 shot.

2. Clean barrel / lube bolt / 5 shots.

3. Clean barrel / lube bolt / 10 shots.

4. Clean barrel / lube bolt / 10 to 15 shots and clean again.


D. Additional Barrel Break-in and Cleaning Tips -

1. Each time you clean you may also follow the last dry patch with a patch soaked with LOCK-EEZ. This is a graphite powder suspended in a quick evaporating carrier that coats the bore slightly before passing that first round through a completely dry bore.

2. We are always asked about powder fouling and how to remove it. The only product that we have seen that really does a good job on powder fouling, especially on the carbon ring that forms just ahead of where the neck ends in the chamber, is IOSSO Bore Paste. This is used with a Pro-Shot nylon bristle brush and worked slowly in the neck and throat areas, then slowly down the entire bore. Follow this up with a few wet patches, then dry the bore as usual, and your ready to shoot.



E. Follow the outline above for your regular cleaning program and I promise that your rifle barrels will deliver their greatest accuracy and life without a lot of grief and hours of wondering if they are clean.

Good Shooting,

Speedy Gonzalez
 
Yote ...

I've used Speedy's method for a long time and have gotten excellent results. The only mods I made to his primary method was using Butch's Bore Shine instead of Speedy's special formula and JB vice Iosso. I tried Iosso but for some reason it seemed harder for me to thoroughly remove so I went back to JB. My suggestion:Find a cleaning method that makes sense to you and adopt it.
 
Ok That gives me a couple more questions. First I have always heard that you should not pull your brush back through the bore. (it can damage the crown) So would you say that is just a farce or I am sure it depends what you are doing. When I use a brush I have been using a plastic brush, is this what you are refering to? and now I guess I will have to get a couple more cleaning products. I do have a bore guide and have been using it but it is not the one you mentioned. I guess I will look for one of them also.

This morning I patched out the wipe out from last night and I still have blue. I know that this barrel is in rough shape so I took the jb about 25 full strokes about 5 with every patch cleaned with BBS and then the wipe out is in again. I will patch it out at lunch and see what we have
 
yotebuster1200 said:
Ok I have one more question. (well I have lots of questions but one for now). Is the copper build up that is in the tip of the barrel (mostly in the last half inch from what I can tell, their is one streak that goes deeper and I cant tell where it stops) a good indication of what the rest of the barrel would look like if I had a bore scope to look at it with? Or would it maybe look like that at the tip and at the throat?
Click to expand...

Walt Berger in several of his articles states that barrels copper mainly in the first and last 3 inches. I've heard speculation that the first 3" section (back by the chamber) gets layered from blowby and the last three (muzzle) are the result of precipitative cooling. Walt contended that the copper deposits near the muzzle closely approximated the copper deposited near the throat, "If you've got one you've got the other."

I've always cleaned until the stuff in the muzzle is gone and called it good.

al
 
Um...
So....foaming bore cleaners ...like Gunslick, Hoppe's, Wipe-Out...?

Aren't they good?


Myself, ...I've had excellent luck with them.
?
 
The above link is pretty wordy, so I have excerpted pertinant quotes:

...........“First, barrel break-in processes keep them (Barrel makers) in business. This shoot and clean, shoot and clean every round or few rounds break-in process only damages your brand new match barrel. ……………………………………..If you clean every round or every few rounds during your barrel break-in process or clean your rifle so well after shooting that you take it down to the bare metal, you've created a metal-to-metal contact surface for the next time you shoot the gun. ………………………………….The use of JB's and Flitz can and will take you down to metal-to-metal contact. For all intents and purposes, JB's and Flitz are not the most ideal products for cleaning your rifle…………………………..My instructions for barrel break-in were quite simple. Shoot 20 rounds (non-moly bullets) with no cleaning, as this will further burnish the barrel. Done! Now shoot and clean using your regular regimen of cleaning and if you have to use JB's or flitz type products, go very easy with them, or better yet avoid them. Never clean down to bare metal.
He said most of the cleaning products do a great job, don't be afraid to use a brush and go easy on the ammonia-based products for removing copper fouling. Basically don't let the ammonia-based products remain in the barrel for long lengths of time.”
 
I think it's one of those- DEPENDS - situations

Not all barrels are created equal. Some of them require more cleaning than others. Some will copper foul no matter what you do and some will copper foul very little in their beginning. I have used several break-in methods and have abandoned them. What I found was the barrels that only require 7 or 8 shots to burnish the tool marks will stop coppering regardless of what process one uses.

Unlike Hams or Briskets, I don't believe it is possible to "cure" a barrel by a shoot and clean process. Barrels are cheaper than bullets, all things considered. The copper will come out if one cleans their barrels rather or not they have a "Break In".

I remember reading about the way a certain well known shooter determines which barrels qualify to live on his rifles and I am thinking I didn't read anything about a protracted process for breaking them in.

I suspect it may make a difference as to which caliber one is shooting and how much total fire is in the barrels as to what they need to be cleaned. I doubt that any one method of cleaning will be ideal for every barrel.

I know that some folks shooting 30 BR's only use patches and sparingly when cleaning. Some of their barrels seem to be very competative and last a very long time. Perhaps cleaning too much is BAD for barrels, ultimately.
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top