Convincing gun club to allow wind flags to be placed like BR matches do.

Slowshot said:
One thing I really liked at my previous home club (Poulsbo Sportsman Club) was that there was always a safety officer present. The club did not open without a safety officer and was closed, when the safety officer left. There was after hours shooting but that also required one of those present to be an experienced club safety officer. Our safety officers were very active, walking up and down the line, watching how the shooters were following (or not following) safety rules and even giving tips on safety measures that might not have been club rules. Anyone failing to follow the safety officer's instructions was subject to being ejected from the range for a day and even up to being banned for life, if there was a serious infraction. Minor infractions such as crossing the safety line when the line was cold would result in a warning but could escalate to ejection if repeated after a warning. The safety officer had the authority to eject any member or guest at his or her discretion. In five years as a member there I never saw an incident where the safety officer abused that authority. That was back when I was shooting regularly two to four hours a day, three or four days a week.

I will always remember seeing and hearing a safety officer walk up to a bench, look down and say, "I see so many violations here, I don't know where to start." I was new to the club. I had seen what the shooter was doing and was glad to see the safety officer take such a direct approach. There were drawbacks to the layout of the ranges and there were never enough benches on the rimfire range but I always felt safe there. Sometimes I heard paying guests and even members complain about all of the rules. I was always pleased to see such a person collect his gear and leave in a huff.

Sure we had a list of rules that each member or guest had to read and initial but it was the presence of a safety officer with absolute authority that kept everything going along smoothly. I went through the safety officer training but found acting as a safety officer boring. I realized I would much rather be shooting than watching others shoot. It gave me great respect for those who were willing to give up their shooting time for a measly $5 an hour off their yearly dues. Our safety officers worked one or two four hour shifts per week. No one did it for the money. They did it to keep the club operating.

One of the first differences I noticed, when I joined TRRC, was the general absence of a safety officer's presence. I also noticed how many long time members showed a casual attitude toward such rules as staying behind the safety line while the range is cold and even handling firearms when the line is cold. Still, I cannot imagine anyone at TRRC shooting at another member's target much less wind flags or club property.

You would think we were all adults but it seems that most people need some kind of an authority figure present to keep them acting like adults. What a pity!
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I've been a member of clubs with, and without RSO's present at the ranges. At one of them, the range was gated and locked, so no one could even get to the line unless an RSO was there. The other has several different rifle/pistol ranges on the property that are open to members whenever they wish to shoot, no RSO's. The first example was shot up on a daily basis. My brother in law is still the head RSO there now, and spends most of his time repairing all of the stuff that gets shot up. The other example has few problems with members shooting the place up. Whats the difference? The first example costs $150 to join, and annual dues of $150/year. The latter costs $3500+ to join, and annual dues of $450. I'm no rich guy, and $3,500 was hard for me to part with at the time, but I was fed up with the yahoos at the other range. The point is this: When you have some real money/time/work invested in anything, you are more likely to treat it well, unlike when something is offered for little or nothing.
 
Hunter said:
That reminds me of a RSO (who was enamored with his status) calling the line "cold" and then walking over to a guy who was shooting a .45 ACP at the bench next to me and telling/showing the shooter how much of an expert on the gun he (the RSO) was -- even picking up the gun and doing some demonstration with it while guys were downrange. I looked at the RSO as he was doing that and said, "If John Q. Public was doing what you're doing you'd climb down his throat." He looked at me like he was clueless.
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That would be the last day of RSO duty for that guy, at any club where I was a member. In fact, that would be the end of his membership. No question, no appeal. Who are these people anyhow? What ever happened to common sense?
 
tim said:
If you have any kind of decent membership, consider a small investment in a couple cameras for the line. Those and a few signs that state anybody shooting at improper targets or destroying any club infrastructure will be summarily tossed.
Guarantee your issue will be reduced.
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How do you keep them from shooting up the cameras?
 
lesloan said:
How do you keep them from shooting up the cameras?
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Same way they catch thugs robbing stores, they are caught on videotape. As long as they don't find the video recorder you got a physical description and hopefully a vehicle description. Cameras worked the nuts for our club. We even have one above the shooting benches to find who forgets the gun is loaded as they pick it up to leave.......now they can pay the price for causing the hole in the roof (eternal banishment). The "roof cam" in combination with the range cam can show who's the #%$ of a $@&#% that paste targets over the damn posts.
 
Hal D. said:
The point is this: When you have some real money/time/work invested in anything, you are more likely to treat it well, unlike when something is offered for little or nothing.
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That theory only goes so far. I have frequently seen people, with more money than sense, buy expensive firearms, boats, motorcycles, etc. and then with no training, no experience or understanding of rules of safety head out to the woods, the firing line, the lake (with a boat load of alcohol) or anywhere where they can endanger others. I spend a lot of my available cash on fine firearms and other passions*. I am not rich and could not afford to join your club but I am also not a fool. Unfortunately, there are a lot of self absorbed fools out there, with no respect for the rights and safety of others.

* In addition to firearms I have ridden motorcycles for decades and lived on a sailboat for many years. Believe me, I have seen enough rich fools get in way over their heads to understand an old play on words, "if you're so rich, how come you are not smart."
 
More Than a Few Bad Shooters

Boyd Allen said:
Over the years, I have come to believe that letting people just pay their money, and sign some forms to join a shooting club is at the root of the problem. Having seen a number of what seemed to be good fellows on the firing line, breaking one or more safety rules, right after they had joined, I have come to the conclusion that something more than having people read rules and sign a form that they agree to follow them is required. There is a learning issue involved. Toward that end, I am thinking of writing a script for a video that will among other things demonstrate the dos and don'ts, and discuss the reasons for the rules.

All of the ranges that I belong to have made a transition from worrying about having enough members to pay their bills, to having plenty of members, and in some cases, IMO, too many. Under these conditions, I think that the message needs to be sent that, if necessary, some weeding will be done, and beyond that, I think that being able to join needs to be a bit more involved than showing up, relatively sober with the money or a credit card. Also, I think that there needs to be a mandatory reorientation for renewing members, as onerous as that would be, viewing a video at the minimum. One thing is for sure. Having folks simply read and sign isn't getting the job done, and just like in the old days when paddling was allowed in schools, making an example of a few, can have quite an effect on the rest.
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My experience has been that it's the non members than tend to cause problems. Sometimes it's unbelievable how low the skill/knowledge level is with non members, fortunately our ROs run a tight ship. On the high power side of the range ive seen 50 yds targets shot from the bench where the bullet holes are randomly spread all over the tgt backer, like a piece of Swiss cheese but less tasty. On the pistol side, there are bullet holes in roof covers which are only about 5 feet from the firing line, not just one but many. Ears get shot off steel target frames and perforate the timbers which top the frames. Its my judgment that many non members simply dont have any idea how to shoot and a lot dont really care, they want to pull the trigger, have the gun go bang and then go home thinking they can shoot. All of this costs the clubs money to fix. In my opinion there should be a bigger differential between member shoot ticket prices and that paid by gen public. My favorite [not] time of the year is the prelude to deer season. Many tend not to use any form of rest, but keep spinning the scope dials, not having any idea that there is no way but luck that they will establish a reasonable zero. Just my two cents, but even after having shot all my life im still amazed at some of the stuff that goes on.
 
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Once I had to stop a guy from shooting at an (empty) propane tank at 10 feet. We are quite strict with our safety regulations -- no one wants to see anyone get hurt -- even if they are a candidate for the "Darwin Award".

Then there was the time when the match director found a bullet hole in the side of his pickup -- 180 degrees away from downrange, during a match.

Go figure... With 700 members quite a few can slip through the cracks...
 
Are y'all saying that guns are not safe for everyone to have? Think about the question for a moment....it's rhetorical!
 
Wilbur said:
Are y'all saying that guns are not safe for everyone to have? Think about the question for a moment....it's rhetorical!
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Our constitution says "the right to bear arms shall not be infringed". Yet, we all know someone who would not be safe with a firearm.
 
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It all relates

FBecigneul said:
We sure went sideways from placing wind flags.
Not sure 370 BC got his answer.
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Not really. If all shooters behaved as they should, the ranges would be much safer and cleaner and wind flags could be left up because they would never be shot. It all relates.
 
Wilbur said:
Are y'all saying that guns are not safe for everyone to have? Think about the question for a moment....it's rhetorical!
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Woo Wilbur. It's all good. If'n ya'll don't mind bullet holes and flat tires. Flat tires are the Union method of compliance. Oh, and being shot at.....
it's all good....The DOJ doesn't enforce the Brady law or Election fraud. Why would they care about some good old boy stuff???? Just havin' some fun....
 
FBecigneul said:
We sure went sideways from placing wind flags.
Not sure 370 BC got his answer.
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That's right. So back to that question.

1. Show the club officers that wind flags are normal (universal) at all organized BR competitions and needed for serious practice.
2. Agree to set them up before starting a match or a practice.
3. Agree to take them down before leaving the range.

When Kimberly and I first joined the Poulsbo Sportsman Club, few of the members had ever seen a benchrest rifle, much less a wind flag. While we were shooting, we were frequently asked about the "silencers" (barrel tuners) on the end of our barrels. After a few months of us shooting there 3-5 days a week, many other members bought BR rifles, wind flags, etc. The only problem with that was it became difficult to find an open bench.
 
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