Conditions

3

30NL/IMP

New member
I shoot a 40X, cutback, lapped and rechambered stock barrel...when shooting with "0" wind (tails are hanging down with no movement) my POI is consistently in the 10-ring...with a slight movement at the tail end my POI changes to the 8-9 ring with an occasional 7-ring...when I say "slight movement" I mean just a "twitch"...my question is: will improvement be noted with a tight bore barrel vs a 40X stock barrel... I understand the individual romantic relationship between different barrels and specific ammo...what I don't understand is the value of a "tight bore" vs "stock bore" and possible relationship between outside temperature and bore twist....looking for help and information...my ears work

RBA target at 50yds

Thanks, John
 
John, since this has been up here for a while with no response I'll give it a shot. Basically it's impossible to answer based on your info. It could be your gun, stock, rest, flags, ammo, bedding, ignition, you, any combination of any of these. Get to somebody with some experience and a willingness to help sort out a few things.
 
Thanks Tim...I understand the issues you mention...I came from the centerfire community thinking rimfire would be a great way to keep tuned, to find rimfire is a different cat and now I'm hooked. Let me ask, in your opinion, does a tight bore barrel shoot better thru a condition and also is there a relationship with bore twist and condition.....this all may be basic stuff I have missed in my quest to shoot rimfire match...thanks for your input
 
You can't buy a solution to this situation. You just need experience in reading the effects of the wind and how to compensate. Experience comes from practice, practice, and more practice.
 
John

It ain't nothin' like centerfire. The flag movement you have been ignoring to some extent can no longer be ignored.
 
There are those that believe a tight bore is a more "consistant" shooter but I doubt that translates into better in wind. A condition shooter has, in all probability, more to do with type of rifling, number of qrooves, twist rate, although beware, this is quite "hot" a topic and opinions vary greatly.
Honestly, the absolute best advise I could give is to go to a few shoots, seek out the better shooters, ask about equipment, and a picture will begin to form. This forum is very deceptive. Guys that sound pretty sharp, you will never see at a match. Some of the best .22 guys on the planet, you'll never see them ever post here, a little real match observation will help immeasurably.
 
Number and position of flags

There may be wind conditions your flags aren't picking up. Where I shoot we have swirly winds. I've seen times when the close flag is blowing left with a bit of gusto, the middle flag isn't moving at all, and the far flag is blowing right. Some times there are up drafts or down drafts that the flag tail doesn't show at all. My advise is to try different flag positions to better assess existing winds, and perhaps give a wind shear flag to see if you're experiencing up or down drafts. Finally, center fire bullets aren't effected to the same extent as rim fire bullets.
 
Condition

I agree with Tim and Rock, we shoot here in Southern Nevada where the conditions can range the full spectrum on a single card during a match...ask Charlie Scott. The day I mention the condition was "dead" calm which is a rare phenomena. My basic question is will a tight bore barrel shoot better in a condition and also will barrel twist mitigate condition. John
 
Tim!.....

I'm a little puzzled.....There have been many posts in this forum concerning gun and ammo characteristics that have an effect on response to conditions; twist rate, rifling form, crown, lubrication, bullet shape, bullet runout, chamber alignment, vibration, tuner setting, and on, and on. Everybody decided these things have a very definite influence on response to wind. I noticed that if I posted and suggested that any of these things, considered from a scientific standpoint, just might NOT have any significant effect....well you know what your response to that would have been! Now here you state very definitely - NO! bore and rifling just don't affect response to wind! How you know that???
 
If you follow Tims posts at all you should know by now that Tim likes to make a statement no matter how credible it may be. Just take it with a grain of salt and understand it to be ones attempt to get attention ...

As the PC Community would say "Not that there's anything wrong with that"

:D Mike
 
30NL/IMP,

There are so many factors and variables involved here that it would be pretty much impossible to attribute the problem to the 2 that you mentioned.

Go shoot at some different ranges if you have some close enough, and see if your problem is repeatable. If not, chalk it up as an anomoly and move on.

You stated that a calm condition is rare at your range, so it should not be a problem most of the time.

At my local range, the calmer it gets the more unpredictable the poi becomes.
When all the flags are hanging like wet noodles, and you would expect every shot to fall into the X ring, every card will have some in the 9,8, and even 7 rings. And heaven forbid you should hold off 'cause that shot will hit poa.

Keeps it interesting, and who would want it any other way.
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p.s. chances are good that a new, tight bore barrel from one of the leading makers will shoot better in all conditions than your stock barrel
 
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Mike S said:
If you follow Tims posts at all you should know by now that Tim likes to make a statement no matter how credible it may be. Just take it with a grain of salt and understand it to be ones attempt to get attention ...

As the PC Community would say "Not that there's anything wrong with that"

:D Mike
Click to expand...

Really, show me where I'm wrong there sweetcheeks.Let me guess, yet another "keyboard" shooter. As I recall, six months ago, you didn' have a gun or rest and now your the "credability doorkeeper"? I quess this means your done spending 90% of your time telling Bill Calfee what he's doing wrong on the forum?
 
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Cecil, I think you possibly misread or I possibly did not articulate as clearly but I took the origional question to be one regarding bore tightness relating to wind sensativity. As I stated, there are many thoughts that wind sensativity may be related to twist, type of rifling, number of lands, but I myself have never heard it said that wind sensativity is a function of bore dimension. Bore roundness, maybe. I think that's why the word "probably" was used.
Now if your shooting an "ABC" 2 groove 18 twist, gain twist, .215 bore barrell, I gotta believe it becomes pretty tough to atribute what benefit to what feature.
 
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Tim!...

I didn't mean to bring Mike down on you. All I wanted to know is how you KNOW these things don't affect wind response? How do you determine something like this - I happen to agree with you but my opinion comes from reasoning or experience that is maybe different than yours. Unusual, but I think we both agree on this "barrel effect"!
 
Cecil

Well, I don't know,definatively, nor does anybody else for that matter. Until someone can climb inside a barrel and isolate every single variable with every single atmospheric possibility in a disciplined scientific manor we're relegated to "best quess" approach on lots of stuff. Often you will{forgive me} dismiss something that you cannot find absolute scientific verification about, something that on occasion is generally agreed upon in the best, ultimate, prooving grounds for lots of this stuff, real world match shooting under the span of a large body of time with repeatability. Even then lots of guys may not know exactly WHY it works, but that it does.
Also, I don't blame you for my new pal, he's kind of like an airborne virus, floating around in cyberspace.
P.S. And don't go agreeing with me, it makes me inherintly uncomfortable.
 
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There is a fundamental difference between knowing something and knowing about something. "Knowing about", is another term for belief. "Knowing" is a term reserved exclusively for direct experience, which means an absent of doubt.

You cannot learn anything through the efforts of others. The worlds greatest teachers can teach you absolutely nothing unless you are willing to apply what they have to offer based on your knowing.

JMHO, since the question of knowing came up. :)

Joe
 
John

I shot a 40 X back in 2000. It had a factory Remington 28" CM barrel. It is the best gun I have ever owned,In fact it won the IR 50/50 2-Gun at the National's that year....I think you will find each barrel is different. A tight bore may or may not shoot better...
PS:Remember, the toughest conditions you can shoot in are "no conditions"...
Bill
 
Bill s.....

Do you mean "no conditions" as in a tunnel?
Or do you mean "no conditions" as in UNKNOWN?

Tim....
I was just asking a simple question. I thought you might have done some testing that would be of value, or show the relation of bore characteristics to wind effect. I wasn't looking for "absolute scientific verification". Why do you have to get so hyper?
 
pacecil

what I mean by "no condition", as Tim said the ribbons were not moving. we don't compete in a tunnel so I don't want to shoot in one...Here in Arkansas there is no "dead calm"....The ribbons just won't show it.
We had the same thing at the Crawfish one morning in the sporter match,that if a (one) ribbon twitched,it could be a point or two....:confused:
 
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