Change happen Part III

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Justin: So you're saying if the cop gives you a ticket for only going 10 mph over the speed limit, he's wrong. I mean, it is only 10 mph over. Everybody does it. Nothing to do with right & wrong, just what you can expect to get away with.

Think I've heard that one before...

Or if you're a smoker and get lung cancer, well, you deserved it. But if you don't smoke, it's a tragedy. That about right?
 
Charles E said:
Justin: So you're saying if the cop gives you a ticket for only going 10 mph over the speed limit, he's wrong. I mean, it is only 10 mph over. Everybody does it. Nothing to do with right & wrong, just what you can expect to get away with.

Think I've heard that one before...

Or if you're a smoker and get lung cancer, well, you deserved it. But if you don't smoke, it's a tragedy. That about right?
Click to expand...

Charles,

I'm not real sure how you came up with the above in re: my post. Must be metaphorically speaking. Hell...might be semaphorically speaking! And I'm not real sure you've presented an accurate analogy.

My aunt has lung cancer...she was a smoker. Did she deserve it? I think not. I don't know anybody who I think deserves lung cancer. But she will be the first to tell you she has nobody to blame but herself. She didn't blame Winston, big oil, or Jodi Foster...she blames herself.

Actions, consequences...

You lie on a loan app...or get somebody to lie for you...you've got nobody to blame but yourself.

"Everybody does it". Doesn't mean you should. See dad's comments about jumping off cliffs with your friends. We have the freedom to do alot of things in this country. Doesn't mean we should do some of these things, e.g., standing on a street corner insulting every passer-by...or lying on loan apps.

Do I think lenders/loan officers who falsified these loan doc's should be drawn and quartered. Absolutely. But the bottom line is just that...the signature on the bottom line.

But again, it's the Era of Irresponsibility. Do something dumb, shift the blame. The government will make it better. Building a nation of co-dependents...

By the way, the speeder who got ticketed in your hypothetical was probably driving a red car!

Justin
 
Charles,
If you want to bet your wad on the 100:1 filly, go right ahead! Myself, I'm not too much of a gambling man. We're all responsible for our actions. Because something doesn't work out the way you originally envisioned doesn't mean that someone else is to blame for that turn of events. If I mess up, I'll take responsibility for it. If my hunches on investments don't work out - am I supposed to blame someone for that? Did someone force me to invest in that manner? I don't have an expectation that some hero will always come riding in to save my bacon when my decisions go awry.
Don
 
you are missing the point...
they did not have to lie on thier loan apps....
loan companies were DIRECTED to ACCEPT subprime mortages.......

yep buying votes, yep cost everyone money.
yep it was wrong..but it typically was not the applicant that was at fault....


mike in co
Zebra13 said:
Charles,

I'm not real sure how you came up with the above in re: my post. Must be metaphorically speaking. Hell...might be semaphorically speaking! And I'm not real sure you've presented an accurate analogy.

My aunt has lung cancer...she was a smoker. Did she deserve it? I think not. I don't know anybody who I think deserves lung cancer. But she will be the first to tell you she has nobody to blame but herself. She didn't blame Winston, big oil, or Jodi Foster...she blames herself.

Actions, consequences...

You lie on a loan app...or get somebody to lie for you...you've got nobody to blame but yourself.

"Everybody does it". Doesn't mean you should. See dad's comments about jumping off cliffs with your friends. We have the freedom to do alot of things in this country. Doesn't mean we should do some of these things, e.g., standing on a street corner insulting every passer-by...or lying on loan apps.

Do I think lenders/loan officers who falsified these loan doc's should be drawn and quartered. Absolutely. But the bottom line is just that...the signature on the bottom line.

But again, it's the Era of Irresponsibility. Do something dumb, shift the blame. The government will make it better. Building a nation of co-dependents...

By the way, the speeder who got ticketed in your hypothetical was probably driving a red car!

Justin
Click to expand...
 
Mike,

"In finance, subprime lending (also referred to as near-prime, non-prime, and second-chance lending) means making loans to people who may have difficulty maintaining the repayment schedule. These loans are characterized by higher interest rates and less favorable terms in order to compensate for higher credit risk".

Who, more so than the borrower, would know that they "may have difficulty maintaining the the repayment schedule"? See my first post wherein I speak of knowing what you can afford. I'd love to have a Ferrari 360 (Rosso Corsa red, thank you very much), but I can't afford one. So I've never bought one. A man has got to know his limitations...

I have some exposure to this whole mess via my job. There was alot of "nudge-nudge, wink-wink" going on.

So yes, I do get the point.

Justin
 
you say you get the point , but from every reply you still blame the borrower......
they typically had no clue they were not qualified.
first loan...and the staff said.."it will be fine."....
 
Sec. 801.This title may be cited as the ``Community Reinvestment Act of 1977´´.
[edit] Sec. 802.(a) The Congress finds that—
(1) regulated financial institutions are required by law to demonstrate that their deposit facilities serve the convenience and needs of the communities in which they are chartered to do business;
(2) the convenience and needs of communities include the need for credit services as well as deposit services; and
(3) regulated financial institutions have continuing and affirmative obligation to help meet the credit needs of the local communities in which they are chartered.
(b) It is the purpose of this title to require each appropriate Federal financial supervisory agency to use its authority when examining financial institutions, to encourage such institutions to help meet the credit needs of the local communities in which they are chartered consistent with the safe and sound operation of such institutions.

This is the act often blamed for the banks running wild with bad loans. Read section (b). Where does it say to give a bad loan to every nimrod that walks in the door asking for money?
 
We had the Glass Stegall Act which worked from 1934 to 1999 then the Dodd Frank Bill replaced it and it's a mess now.
Brush
 
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Charles,

I have heard the proponents actually interviewed stating their positions on these matters of how they want the tax code changed. That is where I get my info. I don't just listen to the talking heads. When it comes straight from the politician's lips, you know exactly who said it.

Since my last post, I believe overall, my case has been made by quite a few others as well.

Fini.

Danny
 
Bob Brushingham said:
We had the Glass Stegall Act which worked from 1934 to 1999 then the Dodd Frank Bill replaced it and it's a mess now.
Brush
Click to expand...

The Galss-Stegal Act was repealed in 1999 (Bush) in his attempt to allow the big banks to get bigger.

Dodd-Frank was signed into law July of 2010 to restore the regulations which were replealed.
 
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mike in co said:
you say you get the point , but from every reply you still blame the borrower......
they typically had no clue they were not qualified.
first loan...and the staff said.."it will be fine."....
Click to expand...

Nothing EVER trumps or excuses personal involvement and responsibility, unless the lenders were lending to imbeciles right out of the psycho ward.
 
If it sounds too good to be true - - -

That old adage is so true and with regard to the mortgage mess, everyone at every level should have run that through their heads every few minutes. I saw a Wall Street Exec interviewed shorly after the whole thing blew up. He said " It became all about the Deal, what could be done to put the Deal together; the Deal being a package of mortgages. He said they were getting about $250,000. for each Deal :). Greed, eh?

It seems to me that some or a lot of the money those putting the Deals together could and should me made accountable. If I imbesseled some money from anyone I or any of us would do time for it. Interestingly enough, a couple of Municipal Officials have been sent up lately here in Maine and the books are audited every year. Ya got to wonder how the auditirs miss a few million bucks, eh.

It occurs to me that it is, pretty much, Credit that floats what economy we have. All the Retail Operations we have seen spring up was all done, predicated on folks using their Credit Cards. If we went back to Cash, the banks couldn't get so big. I have not heard one person in Government speak of what must be done to save our economy. We must bring the Manufacturing back to this country. It is what made our way of life and the Service Economy will never be a substitute. Getting the Manufacturing back means tarrifs and is what, ultimately have to be done to bring it back.

I have wondered lately how much Chinese stuff Germany buys? Are their stores full of Chinese crap?
 
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Where did it go?

Folks borrowed money they couldn't pay back and folks loaned it to them fully aware that they couldn't pay it back. Never mind about that very easily accomplished smoke screen. Where did all that money end up?

They're playin' us like a juice harp. Woulda said fiddle but the fiddle requires a bit of effort.
 
The banks got inflated fees,contractors got inflated prices, just part off false economies in this country for many years. The dot com bust,bank bust,housing bust and many more busts.Every now and then a market correction and then recession. Each time is more worst. Wait till you see the next one. You should be trying real hard to save a few dollars. One other thing stop whining the guy got elected period. Changing society,smart and successful people will adapt and do just fine. Old saying "You reap what you sow" has never been truer. Thanks Wilbur for a great site. That's it folks.
Stephen Dean
 
mike in co said:
you say you get the point , but from every reply you still blame the borrower......
they typically had no clue they were not qualified.
first loan...and the staff said.."it will be fine."....
Click to expand...

Mike,

I did mention wanting to draw and quarter the lenders and loan officers. These jackals should be held accountable. But all you ever hear is "predatory lending"...like this whole thing is their fault...the borrowers aren't culpable of anything other than being taken advantage of. And I disagree with that.

Blame the faceless mortgage industry...it's easier. Telling those that vote for you that they were reckless and irresponsible...well...that won't go over well.

I understand that some didn't know that they weren't qualified. I get it. But I don't think that really matters. It's ultimately the buyer who has to ask themselves, "can I afford this house". If your bringing home $3000 a month, and sign mortagage papers that indicate your monthly payment is $2500 a month, well, that's just stupid.

It goes back to being responsible for ones own actions. Nobody made you sign the paperwork.

Justin
 
Wilbur said:
Folks borrowed money they couldn't pay back and folks loaned it to them fully aware that they couldn't pay it back. Never mind about that very easily accomplished smoke screen. Where did all that money end up?

They're playin' us like a juice harp. Woulda said fiddle but the fiddle requires a bit of effort.
Click to expand...

Much of the money was bonused off to high ranking employees, if you remember. Now, if a transfer happens inside the window with regard to the end of life care of an individual, the Govt will make the recipient pay it back. Wonder how deep those bonuses got in Washington. Them Lobbiests don't get paid what they do fer nothing.
 
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