K
kdvarmint
Guest
What do you use to get the carbon ring out of the chamber throat? I get it so bad it drags on the bullets on three rifles. With lots of soaking of KG 1 Carbon Remover and scrubbing I barely make a dent in it.
Boyd Allen
Active member
Load up a nylon bore brush with IOSSO, full to the ends of the bristles, and short stroke and twist. Don't do too much at once. Clean out and inspect and then go again. I think that IOSSO is "sharper" than JB, although both are good products, if properly used.
L
L. E. Hanson
Guest
If you want to remove it quickly, use a short rod, such as a chamber cleaning rod, with a bronze brush wrapped in 0000 steel wool and scour it out. I used this techniqe recently on a carbon ring that was impervious to solvents and mild abrasives. Through the borescope, copper shards were embedded in the carbon ring. It required a little work with the steel wool method to scour it all out. Once the carbon ring was removed, inspection with the borescope showed no damage.
Lawrence
Lawrence
R
rcw3
Guest
It's funny because the whole concept of the "carbon ring" is apparently a unknown to many shooters, and when you mention it to some, some look at you like you are on a different planet. In the past month I had two customers who had constant pressure problems and thought there was something wrong with their barrel - - there was, there was a carbon ring in each case and it was so bad it was constricting the throat area so that when I pulled a cleaning rod backwards through the bore with a tight patch on it, I could feel the back pressure increase significantly right before it hit the chamber. I used JB on a big patch wrapped around an undersized bore brush and worked the throat area and that got rid of it in each case. Test firing loads that were blowing out primer pockets before proved to be now fine after getting rid of the "carbon ring". I looked at one "carbon ring" before the JB treatment and it had bits of copper jacket embedded in it just like L.E. Hanson notes above.
Robert
Robert
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kdvarmint
Guest
JB is what I plan on trying next. I was hoping I would get some conformation. I've been fighting this problem for some time and the biggest surprise is finding someone who understands what I'm talking about. I sure can't believe I'm the only one with this problem. Thanks for the advise! I'm finally starting to think I'm on the right track to a solution.
This problem goes back a ways 
I remember Tony Boyer writing an article about the reaming tool he made from what, a .22LR case as I recall??? This was in the early '90's. And I've seen several articles about using brass or copper rods with teeth filed into the end.
This is why I run my gapspace so short......
al
I remember Tony Boyer writing an article about the reaming tool he made from what, a .22LR case as I recall??? This was in the early '90's. And I've seen several articles about using brass or copper rods with teeth filed into the end.This is why I run my gapspace so short......
al
In my 30 cal. I use a 35 cal. brush, with Montana extreme 50 bmg. solvent. Then once you get it all out. I use Flitz to polish the throat and neck area, it keeps it from sticking so bad, next time it will come out a little easier. But the over size brush is the trick.
Joe Salt
Joe Salt
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kdvarmint
Guest
Been there with the brush. Stuff is stubborn. Got some JB on the way.
R
rcw3
Guest
I find the Hodgdon extreme powders are most prone to create a carbon ring build up, and the build up I get is very hard stuff to remove (never found anything but a mild abrasive like JB that is effective at removing it). I really don't like to JB the throat area and I try not to do it unless I feel I need to do it, but I have never found much else that does the job as well as it.
I don't know it is created as a result of a gap between the end of the brass and the end of the chamber (although that probably does not help to have a big gap there), it seems like it's up forward in the rifling more to me and what I see.
Robert
I don't know it is created as a result of a gap between the end of the brass and the end of the chamber (although that probably does not help to have a big gap there), it seems like it's up forward in the rifling more to me and what I see.
Robert
K
kdvarmint
Guest
The two rifles I have the hardest time with are shooting loads with Varget. And no, I have no intention of giving it up.
bill larson
Member
carbon is very hard..... rite next to diamond.........to lap it out.... flitz....iosso...J-B... etc. (are designed to remove metal ).....one would need a diamond abrasive.Carbon however.....can be chemically removed.
I use GM Top Engine Cleaner.
bill larson
I use GM Top Engine Cleaner.
bill larson
M
mike in co
Guest
bingo.....
or duh
ladies and gentlemen...
welcome to the wonderful world of chemicals...or as they said durign the 70's..better living thru better chemestry.
quit rubbing and scrubing...dont let it build up...use a carbon remover as the first step in every cleaning...and you will have not carbon ring.
i start every cleaning session with two wet patches of gm top engine cleaner.......
no more issues...and yes i have been there done that.
i had a bbl with so much carbon in it, that when the gm tec hit the carbon the first time i could barely get the patch out of the bbl.
mike in co
or duh
ladies and gentlemen...
welcome to the wonderful world of chemicals...or as they said durign the 70's..better living thru better chemestry.
quit rubbing and scrubing...dont let it build up...use a carbon remover as the first step in every cleaning...and you will have not carbon ring.
i start every cleaning session with two wet patches of gm top engine cleaner.......
no more issues...and yes i have been there done that.
i had a bbl with so much carbon in it, that when the gm tec hit the carbon the first time i could barely get the patch out of the bbl.
mike in co
Vern
Morethan1waytoskinacat
FWIW
I did a test last year on several carbon removers.
Liquids and pastes. What I found could be causing false readings for a lot of people.
You can test it yourself.
I found that certain products will sort of react with the barrel (SS) and turn black regardless whether it is dirty or not.
To test yours simply clean the outside of the barrel with alcohol then take your preferred cleaner on a patch and rub the clean area of the barrel with the same force you use to clean the inside of the barrel.
You will be surprised how many patches can turn black even from clean steel.
Kind of like using brasso on clean brass can still turn the rag black.
Try it for yourself...
I did a test last year on several carbon removers.
Liquids and pastes. What I found could be causing false readings for a lot of people.
You can test it yourself.
I found that certain products will sort of react with the barrel (SS) and turn black regardless whether it is dirty or not.
To test yours simply clean the outside of the barrel with alcohol then take your preferred cleaner on a patch and rub the clean area of the barrel with the same force you use to clean the inside of the barrel.
You will be surprised how many patches can turn black even from clean steel.
Kind of like using brasso on clean brass can still turn the rag black.
Try it for yourself...
bill larson
Member
I ran a similar test with Sweets 7.62..... the most feared copper remover.I took a barrel and for 1 week.... 5 days I kept reapplying sweets to the same spot....never wiping any off just reapplying.... results... NO EFFECT.... not even discoloration....
IIRC the "problems" associated with the use of Sweets had to do with it coming into contact with other cleaning solutions like maybe Shooter's Choice??? I've always been careful to use chemicals separately (except for mixing SC with Kroil, as a nice room conditioning par'fum)
al
R
rcw3
Guest
While we have been calling it a "carbon ring", I am not sure what it is really made up of. I somehow think there is more to it than just carbon. I tried the chemicals route (GM Top Engine Cleaner, Slip 2000, etc.) but never found they got to the build up. It seems like a hard glaze substance, and like I said, I found the Hodgdon Extreme powders (Varget, H4350, H4831SC, H1000, etc.) seem to be prone to laying it on more so than other powders, which makes me wonder if it also involves the retardant and other coatings or chemicals they use with the powders, etc. Maybe if I plugged the bore and soaked it for a few days it might soften things up so it would come right out with a patch or with some brushing, but life is too short for me at that point - - extended rifle cleaning is not where I want to be.
Robert
John Kielly
Shari's fan club
Robert,
Very likely. Here in Australia we've managed that issue (or not) with those powders travelling under their original names.
John
Very likely. Here in Australia we've managed that issue (or not) with those powders travelling under their original names.
John
Boyd Allen
Active member
Robert,
Have you tried Carb-Out, by the same outfit that makes Wipe-Out? The only change from the directions that I found I needed was to use a bronze brush instead of nylon. Once I did a barrel that had never been properly cleaned (I think) with a couple of 20 minute soaks , and vigorous brushing, after each. It was an old 7 mag. I had used regular solvent patches and a brush, until the blue was gone, but you still couldn't see the bottom of the grooves for the black.
Boyd
Have you tried Carb-Out, by the same outfit that makes Wipe-Out? The only change from the directions that I found I needed was to use a bronze brush instead of nylon. Once I did a barrel that had never been properly cleaned (I think) with a couple of 20 minute soaks , and vigorous brushing, after each. It was an old 7 mag. I had used regular solvent patches and a brush, until the blue was gone, but you still couldn't see the bottom of the grooves for the black.
Boyd
G
gunner52
Guest
I looked at my barrel yesterday with a bore scope and was amazed at the level of carbon buildup in the first six inches of the groves. I use several diff. types of solvents and always thought Butches Bore Shine was the best. After reading this thread, I went to the local Chevy dealer and got some gm top engine cleaner and it was amazing how much carbon it removed and how easy it was. This was used on a stainless barrel but being anal as I am I still diluted with Hoppes and ran a few patches of Remoil after cleaning. It is now spotless.
Thanks for the tip. BTW: I used a nylon brush..