Don, if you're going to wiki it, how about adding something like what's in red?
. . . that requires no further tuner or powder charge adjustment, regardless of atmospheric conditions, for a given yardage . . .
The reason being, if you have to change your load, nothing has been gained over a barrel without such a device.
. . . that requires no further tuner or powder charge adjustment, regardless of atmospheric conditions, for a given yardage . . .
The reason being, if you have to change your load, nothing has been gained over a barrel without such a device.
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tim in tx
Guest
joel and charles
if i may ask ,have you guys got your slow shots to go high yet,and have they been enough to compensate for the drop at the distance you are shooting? tim in tx
if i may ask ,have you guys got your slow shots to go high yet,and have they been enough to compensate for the drop at the distance you are shooting? tim in tx
Tim, I'm not trying the test you're speaking of. I never understood how the whole thing was suppose to work.
Joel did make me a "heavy" tuner, but I probably won't finish the the stock for a while. Initial efforts will probably be what Joel tried & got to work, "ringing" the barrel with all pieces in place. I believe that was Clafee's notion before the "two shots at 42 yards" you & Lynn are talking about.
Joel did make me a "heavy" tuner, but I probably won't finish the the stock for a while. Initial efforts will probably be what Joel tried & got to work, "ringing" the barrel with all pieces in place. I believe that was Clafee's notion before the "two shots at 42 yards" you & Lynn are talking about.
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tim in tx
Guest
don sir
i was able to remove the verticle at 100yds as a regular tuner does anyway but more important i was able to make the slow shots hit 1.1 inches higher or anywhere in between then the fast shots ,that tells me at 1000yds i should have had a group with very little verticle with a 50 fps es.i would say that would be nothing short of incredible .hopefully will do just that tommorrow.we got some storms coming in so i will avoid being a lightning rod today,but hopefully tommorrow or this week some time at least i will shoot some 1000 groups [5 shot]with this same exact weight setting and at .8 powder difference within each group. my goal will be to shoot a competitive agg of around 5 inches.the setting should be ideal for 1000yds at least within 50 or so fps,the relitively new barrel has shot a 4.9 inch group and a few 5s before the brake/ tuner was installed so i should be able to do it again with the set up. tim in tx
i was able to remove the verticle at 100yds as a regular tuner does anyway but more important i was able to make the slow shots hit 1.1 inches higher or anywhere in between then the fast shots ,that tells me at 1000yds i should have had a group with very little verticle with a 50 fps es.i would say that would be nothing short of incredible .hopefully will do just that tommorrow.we got some storms coming in so i will avoid being a lightning rod today,but hopefully tommorrow or this week some time at least i will shoot some 1000 groups [5 shot]with this same exact weight setting and at .8 powder difference within each group. my goal will be to shoot a competitive agg of around 5 inches.the setting should be ideal for 1000yds at least within 50 or so fps,the relitively new barrel has shot a 4.9 inch group and a few 5s before the brake/ tuner was installed so i should be able to do it again with the set up. tim in tx
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tim in tx
Guest
charles sir
i know there are a few things going on and not trying to sidetrack but just going with the absence of tune theory ,i know i have probably missed quite a few things about bills ringing thing and the formula for determining weight so i got to go with what i know as of now, if i can help in any way you guys get it figured out i am more then happy to give it a shot. but it seems everybody involed is doing many different things with tuners ,it will be interesting for sure. tim in tx
i know there are a few things going on and not trying to sidetrack but just going with the absence of tune theory ,i know i have probably missed quite a few things about bills ringing thing and the formula for determining weight so i got to go with what i know as of now, if i can help in any way you guys get it figured out i am more then happy to give it a shot. but it seems everybody involed is doing many different things with tuners ,it will be interesting for sure. tim in tx
jackie schmidt
New member
Tim
I mailed those parts today, I got so tied up last week with work and trying to get ready for our Match I just did not have time to get to the post office. You should get them around Wednesday......jackie
I mailed those parts today, I got so tied up last week with work and trying to get ready for our Match I just did not have time to get to the post office. You should get them around Wednesday......jackie
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tim in tx
Guest
jackie sir
i understand ,not a problem . tim in tx
i understand ,not a problem . tim in tx
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tim in tx
Guest
sunday morning test
well guys ,i just cannot get a break with the hurricane winds that have plagued the n texas area for at least a month or so,the winds speed were up there around 25 mph 18 sustained for short periods but i figured you might like to hear about it anyway.that is the best i can do for now. i went to the 1000yds range with the calfee style tuner locked and tuned from last week. i was fairly confident the tuner was real close to being perfect in tune ,what i did was pick my "in the middle charge" referenced from last weeks high and low charges, the temp started out around 56 degrees ,depending when the winds were hitting the temp sensor. ended up being 72 degrees when i was done ,the tune seems to be holding through out the temp swing of the morning . it still would be enough to put my gun out of tune with out the tuner. the winds were up enough to blow the flags straight out but they dropped slightly for short periods,so i try tried to to shoot straight out and dropped and steady conditions by machine gunning them and waiting for the condition which worked on both at times but i really could pretty much explain most all of the flyers by the condition change i noticed after the shot.the wind was straight at the target switching to the right with a 1.5-2 moa push, i had no verticle issues at all with these winds straight at the target and i expected to see a ton of verticle just because of the winds alone but i did not,i shot 8 5 shot groups but if i screwed up and walked them out it was always staight to the side.i had a group[the largest] of 5 shots that was right at 14 inches wide with around 1-2 inches of verticle.my agg of 8 targets verticly speaking was 5 inches, i dont really care to mention my horizontal ,but it was all over the place. with the tuner so far it seems to to correct the verticle and stays in tune. i just have to learn extreme winds better,but hopefully soon we will get some better shooting conditions and i can give a better scope of the tuners possibilities. probably means nothing but one note:both last week and this week i had 2 holes touching within 1 group,that hasnt happened in a long time but it is good to see it never the less. tim in tx
well guys ,i just cannot get a break with the hurricane winds that have plagued the n texas area for at least a month or so,the winds speed were up there around 25 mph 18 sustained for short periods but i figured you might like to hear about it anyway.that is the best i can do for now. i went to the 1000yds range with the calfee style tuner locked and tuned from last week. i was fairly confident the tuner was real close to being perfect in tune ,what i did was pick my "in the middle charge" referenced from last weeks high and low charges, the temp started out around 56 degrees ,depending when the winds were hitting the temp sensor. ended up being 72 degrees when i was done ,the tune seems to be holding through out the temp swing of the morning . it still would be enough to put my gun out of tune with out the tuner. the winds were up enough to blow the flags straight out but they dropped slightly for short periods,so i try tried to to shoot straight out and dropped and steady conditions by machine gunning them and waiting for the condition which worked on both at times but i really could pretty much explain most all of the flyers by the condition change i noticed after the shot.the wind was straight at the target switching to the right with a 1.5-2 moa push, i had no verticle issues at all with these winds straight at the target and i expected to see a ton of verticle just because of the winds alone but i did not,i shot 8 5 shot groups but if i screwed up and walked them out it was always staight to the side.i had a group[the largest] of 5 shots that was right at 14 inches wide with around 1-2 inches of verticle.my agg of 8 targets verticly speaking was 5 inches, i dont really care to mention my horizontal ,but it was all over the place. with the tuner so far it seems to to correct the verticle and stays in tune. i just have to learn extreme winds better,but hopefully soon we will get some better shooting conditions and i can give a better scope of the tuners possibilities. probably means nothing but one note:both last week and this week i had 2 holes touching within 1 group,that hasnt happened in a long time but it is good to see it never the less. tim in tx
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Tony C
Guest
Tim
I don't know what flipping is or what it indicates. If one wants to know if a muzzle is stopped - here is what was once posted. Are you trying to stop the muzzle and what is supposed to be the result of the experiment?
I don't know what flipping is or what it indicates. If one wants to know if a muzzle is stopped - here is what was once posted. Are you trying to stop the muzzle and what is supposed to be the result of the experiment?
Tony C
Tony when you are shooting two different velocity loads at a target one will hit low while the other will hit high.
If you add weight to your tuner those two shots will converge at some point then switch orientation on the target.If you don't have enough weight to get them to flip you probaly don't have enough weight to get the best accuracy out of your tuner.
Lynn
Tony when you are shooting two different velocity loads at a target one will hit low while the other will hit high.
If you add weight to your tuner those two shots will converge at some point then switch orientation on the target.If you don't have enough weight to get them to flip you probaly don't have enough weight to get the best accuracy out of your tuner.
Lynn
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tim in tx
Guest
tony,what lynn said
then once you can make the 2 differing velocites hit in the same spot on your target then you lock the tuner down and no more adjustment is needed.so now you shoot one load and any velocity variance is corrected and goes into the same poi no matter what the variance is. i dont know if that is considered a stopped muzzle . i am learning more everyday on this subject.and if wasnt for lynn and bill i would not be able acomplish this. tim in tx
then once you can make the 2 differing velocites hit in the same spot on your target then you lock the tuner down and no more adjustment is needed.so now you shoot one load and any velocity variance is corrected and goes into the same poi no matter what the variance is. i dont know if that is considered a stopped muzzle . i am learning more everyday on this subject.and if wasnt for lynn and bill i would not be able acomplish this. tim in tx
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Tony C
Guest
So a muzzle is stopped if:
and:
I'm assuming the barrel is "hinged" to allow this to happen.
and:
I'm assuming the barrel is "hinged" to allow this to happen.
Tony C
Tony if you read the testing done by Jackie Schmidt you will see he shot his 6PPC with a 3 grain variance in powder charge and put his bullets basicaly in the same hole.
His two loads started out with about 3/4 inch of vertical and by adding weight to the muzzle they converged at the target.
This test was only meant to show people it was even possible to put two widely spaced shots in the same horizontal plane or without vertical.It was meant to show what could be done and not taken that we need to shoot widely spaced shots.
Tim is working on a 1,000 yard rig were vertical is always your enemy.If his best load is 75 grains of powder he can use one load at 74.5 grains and one load at 75.5 grains in his tuner adjusting.He will add weight to his tuner until he sees no vertical on his 1,000 yard target.At that point he can switch back to his 75 grain load and hopefully he won't have to worry about the small influences that arise from the weather or powder sensitivity.
Lynn
Tony if you read the testing done by Jackie Schmidt you will see he shot his 6PPC with a 3 grain variance in powder charge and put his bullets basicaly in the same hole.
His two loads started out with about 3/4 inch of vertical and by adding weight to the muzzle they converged at the target.
This test was only meant to show people it was even possible to put two widely spaced shots in the same horizontal plane or without vertical.It was meant to show what could be done and not taken that we need to shoot widely spaced shots.
Tim is working on a 1,000 yard rig were vertical is always your enemy.If his best load is 75 grains of powder he can use one load at 74.5 grains and one load at 75.5 grains in his tuner adjusting.He will add weight to his tuner until he sees no vertical on his 1,000 yard target.At that point he can switch back to his 75 grain load and hopefully he won't have to worry about the small influences that arise from the weather or powder sensitivity.
Lynn
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tim in tx
Guest
lynn is exactly right
one thing i noticed too is that the spin drift angles are no more as well,my bullets are not going high left and low right with the wind,they either go straight out left or straight out to the right,now if we could just make the tuner compensate for the wind .
tim in tx
one thing i noticed too is that the spin drift angles are no more as well,my bullets are not going high left and low right with the wind,they either go straight out left or straight out to the right,now if we could just make the tuner compensate for the wind .
tim in tx
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Tony C
Guest
Tim
That is pretty interesting. What about head and tail winds?
Tony Carpenter
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tim in tx
Guest
tony
tailswinds are much more shootable to me as you can feel it before it gets to the bullets path so it is more predictable in that respect.the last test was with herendous winds straight at the target and showed very little verticle,havent shot in a headwind yet with everything working but i will certainly keep you informed when i do. tim in tx
tailswinds are much more shootable to me as you can feel it before it gets to the bullets path so it is more predictable in that respect.the last test was with herendous winds straight at the target and showed very little verticle,havent shot in a headwind yet with everything working but i will certainly keep you informed when i do. tim in tx
one thing i noticed too is that the spin drift angles are no more as well,my bullets are not going high left and low right with the wind,they either go straight out left or straight out to the right,now if we could just make the tuner compensate for the wind .
Tim, that is a matter of exterior ballistics. If would seem you've found a way to violate the laws of physics after all.
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tim in tx
Guest
charles sir
now it seems the angles i thought were spin induced were more on the lines of nothing to do with spin at all but more of velocity variance. say with the wind coming from the left,the slower bullet blows more and drops more,the faster bullet will go higher and blow less which puts it high left. i cannot ever see defying phisics ,but it could explain what i saw in these groups. tim in tx
now it seems the angles i thought were spin induced were more on the lines of nothing to do with spin at all but more of velocity variance. say with the wind coming from the left,the slower bullet blows more and drops more,the faster bullet will go higher and blow less which puts it high left. i cannot ever see defying phisics ,but it could explain what i saw in these groups. tim in tx
Tim in Tx
The angular effect (left=UP and right=DOWN) of crosswinds has nothing to do with velocity variance but everything to do with the rate at which the bullet is losing velocity. The reason that a leftward drifting bullet prints high is because its attitude is nose down/tail up which means that drag lifts it higher on the target.
Conversely a bullet flies nose high in a left-to-right wind and therefore it's tail-dragged DOWN on the target. Bullets with lower BC's (like short-range BR bullets) show this effect more than bullets with high Ballistic Coefficients.
The difference in vertical drift from different velocity between two like bullets in a group is NOT enough to find on the target.
al
The angular effect (left=UP and right=DOWN) of crosswinds has nothing to do with velocity variance but everything to do with the rate at which the bullet is losing velocity. The reason that a leftward drifting bullet prints high is because its attitude is nose down/tail up which means that drag lifts it higher on the target.
Conversely a bullet flies nose high in a left-to-right wind and therefore it's tail-dragged DOWN on the target. Bullets with lower BC's (like short-range BR bullets) show this effect more than bullets with high Ballistic Coefficients.
The difference in vertical drift from different velocity between two like bullets in a group is NOT enough to find on the target.
al