Bullet Making (originally owned by Stephen Perry)

BR bullet making.

Yep,
I think this will be a good thread. I recently purchased bullet making dies, lead wire, core cutter, J4 jackets and the presses. Built a 3'x8' stout table to make them on and am looking forward to getting started. I have been trying to get all my "rat killin" done and out of the way so I can get out to the "Skunkworks" and start seeing what I can do. I will be watching this thread with interest. I have already chatted with Gerry and he was very helpful. Spent a day with a good bullet maker/shooter/friend and he helped walk me through the basics. Lookin' forward to it. :)

Best.
Dan Batko

"Where are we going and why am I in this basket?"
 
Br bullet making

Core cutting.
I'm luck i have a old core cutter from Herters.
It is a top feed with a box to catch the slugs.
Two dies are in it for cutting.
top for the lever and bottom for the body.
It works like the some of the other types .
The lead is vertical and feeds down. There is a ejector that will help if a
slug get caught in the lower die. It also have a micrometer adjustable stop.
It's easy to use and the box holds about 250 slugs.
slug cutting is pretty easy for me.
 
Is the Coye cutter gravity feed or continious feed? Anyone have his email or land line?
 
Br bullet making

I have jasons number.
1-585-208-8367
They are not cheap but they do work'
Gerry
 
Br bullet making

Steven'
Have you tried making any 30 cal bullets yet?
How many are making 30 cal bullets?
 
I've been making my own .30's for two seasons, now. I was fortunate to have R.G. Robinett as my mentor. Doesn't get any better than that. :) Randy has always been there with good advice and maybe more importantly....he has the ability to make me think about and question each step in the process. Terry Meyer was also very generous with his time and advice. Terry makes killer bullets, believe me.

I made my first bullets on Easter Sunday 2008 (pretty fitting, no?) and shot them the next weekend. When that second bullet went right through the first hole, I felt like I'd just won the lottery. The first five shot group measured .167.

I was hooked immediately. :D
 
Br bullet making

Hi Al
I asked for a reason" Those 6mm and 22's are quite a bit different.
The pressure and forces needed are alot Different with the 30's
I'm making 8og 115 on the 925 jackets They are shooting Really well
One of my shooter just shot another tiny group this past week an 079.
I never realized the 30 br could shoot that small.
 
Br bullet making

Who is swaging their cores?
some people are buying them already done.
I make my own. Anyone else?
 
If (when ;)) you stick a bullet in the point up die due to inadequate lube or a broken ejector pin:

Sit down and relax. It'll be okay. :) Don't attack it with punches, a Dremel tool, your Milwaukie Sawz-All or your brides favorite gardening trowel.

Remove the die and drill a small hole in the base of the bullet. Screw a sheet metal or drywall screw into the base of the bullet and up into the core far enough so it has a good purchase. Use a screw that's long enough to leave about 3/4" sticking out of the base of the bullet. Then, with the die clamped in a holder that's secured to the drill press table, lower the chuck down and clamp the chuck on the head of the screw. Raise the chuck and the bullet will pop out.

If you've got a lathe, you can hold the die in the chuck and back it out with the tailstock...if the taper will hold the chuck in place.
 
Gerry said:
Who is swaging their cores? Some people are buying them already done.
Click to expand...

For me, making cores is the worst part of bullet making. At best, it's mind numbing. I bought some pre-made cores and they are dead nuts for weight and they work well. My squirt die makes a core that's a few thou. smaller than the ones I bought and I like how my cores fit the jackets. I like a bit different antimony mix than the commercial cores are available with, so I'm going back to making my own.

I cut my wire into 17" lengths. When cut, this gives 28 useable cores for the 117's with minimal waste on each end of the 'stick'. I figure each stick equals 25 cores, so it's easy to figure how many sticks are needed to made a certain number of cores. The extra 3 per stick I consider freebies. After squirting 1,000 cores, I end up with about 115-120 freebies that I dump off into another container for use later.

Fooling myself into thinking I'm getting something 'free' is the only way I can stay sane when making cores........:D
 
BR Bullet making

I hear you Al. Yes it's mind numbing.
But then you have total control over the bullet.
I use Pure lead without the antimony. I feel i get a better core and that's the recomended Material that Bahlers book wrote about .
New clean lead uniform in diameter with out any oxidation.
I like the cores that my dies make. The die leaves enough room for the air to Escape from the jacket when seated.
I was talking to Doc Maretzo about this. He said he had xrayed some bullets and found air pockets under the cores on finished bullets.
Yesterday i had a bullet cut in half.
Good news for me NO air pockets.
That was on the 6mm bullets. Next i'll check the 30 cal 8 og I make.
They have been shooting really well. Maybe it's a waste of time but i'm going to cut one anyway.
 
I started making my own 6mm bullets about 20 yrs ago after Myles Holister sold a set of dies that made good bullets. Myles said " Bill I just sold that set up and now I have another good set" Myles changed bullets dies like most people change socks . So to keep a consistant bullet . I called Bill Niemi and told him I wanted a die like the one he just made Myles. So I had a 7 1/2 and a 7 3/4 ogive made and after many hours on the phone with Myles and JD Denoff helping I got some bullets I thought were acceptable. My question is What is everyone using for lube now . Myle gave me his mix of Lanolin , refined lard oil and duralube. This has worked good -but is there a better lube.
I have some cores that Fry cut and I squirt and as has been said - it's a labor intensive job. But when you are retired and get bored in the winter time - What the hey.
I have made some 30 cal bullets on Jon Conlys dies and I believe he has a VERY good set. We will see how they work in 2010 matches, in practice they GOOD.
 
BR Bullet making

Lubs< I'm using some of BOB SImonsons Lube.
When i bought a setof dies he sold me some of this super slick lube.
Like the BRYL cream comercial . A little Dap will do ya.
I don't know whats in it but it lasts a long time.
I'm wondering if bobs family might have the formula.
I could use some more. I have also used CASTER oil. from the pharmacy .
works fine but a tad greasy. Corbin makes a lube but i think that s a tad greasy. One that i made up years ago works pretty well Dehydrated laonlin and neets foot Oil. Lanolin and other types of lubes, Straight lanolin melted down in a Micro wave. When you get the lanolin it very stringy so you have to work it a bit. I have also heard that some people have used lanolin with Vasaline. I guess the key is a lanolin base. Bahlers book recomends staright Lanolin
 
BR Bullet making

Stephen are you going to get back on this post?
I'll keep yaping if you want . Or should i not yap?
Ok core forming?
What style punch do you have?. Some have a punch that is concave on both ends. I like the one that is flat on one end and has the Radius on one end .
 
German, in the software industry, that step would be defined as a "feature". As in, "it's not a bug, it's a feature". ;)
 
BR Bullet making

Cost Steel versus carbide,'
Steel dies done properly are a great learning tool.
They will last for many thousand of bullets.
They are less expensive.
That said they will not last as long, they require more lube when using .
They also develope a large pressure ring after quite a bit of use.
Some die makers say they are good for about 50,000 bullets.
The carbide dies cost more but last for millions of bullets.
They require way less lube.
They do not develop a large pressure Ring
They hold their value.
 
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BR Bullet making

German '
Your friend may be trying to make that rebated boat Tail like the rebated Lapua. He may have used the wrong punch on pointing and discovered , that it makes a better bullet.
I have made a few boat tails but not like that rebated lapua.
A boat tail core former could be made to duplicate it if someone want to make it. Along with the point die punch to match the base.
 
Bullet Making Presses and Dies

When I got interested in bullet making I asked around to see who was making bullets in my area. A shooter friend I knew helped me get started with equipment. I knew I couldn't afford new presses and dies. My friend now my bullet making mentor had bought over the years equipment from retired bullet makers. He was able to set me up with a set of Simonson dies and a RCBS Rockchucker press to make 6mm bullets. I started with one press because it fit my budget. Later I bought more presses. Now I have 3 presses, 2 Rockchuckers and a A2, and 2 sets of dies. My dies are Simonson 6mm and Rorschach 22 dies.The dies are carbide and are used. Buying used dies can be a risk. Ask around on used dies before jumping in. I bought mine from my Mentor. He says he always makes bullets on any set of dies he buys used before he sells them so that he knows they are right. For presses allot are using RCBS Rockchucker presses. The presses need to be converted for bullet making, an ejector rack needs to be added to each press.

You need to have an area to mount your presses. What I use is a wood box open on side. The box is made out of 3/4" plywood with a double thick front board making it 1 1/2". I bolt my core making press and core seating press on opposite sides and my point die press on the 1 1/2' aside. This way I can rotate around the box making it easy to perform each step. Whatever way you set up your presses make sure you have solid setup.

Getting a little ahead here but Gerry talked about jacket lube. Got my mix from a local bullet maker. My mix is 3 parts anhydrous lanoline 1 part vaseline. There are several methods to lube jackets. Talk later about lubing jackets.

For core cutting I use a CH wire cutter. I cut my cores about 3 grn heavier than what I want my finished core to be. The extra rough core weight will come off during the core swaging step. My particular core cutter is old but simple and fast, I can cut 100 rough cores in less than 10 minutes. Might as well finish off this segment talking about making cores. As stated earlier some are buying cores I have always made mine. Lead wire can be bought from several sources. I buy mine for Bruno's. He sells 25 or 50 lb rolls. I always have several hundred lbs of lead on hand.

Core Making
I set my core making die to make the core weight I want. Say my 6 mm .825 jacket weighs 22.7 grn in my lot. I can adjust my core die to make a core weight when added to the jacket weight produces a finished bullet of the weight I want. For example when I make a 43.4 grn core added to my 22.7 grn J4 jacket I end up with 66.1 grn bullets.

With a new paper bowl of cut cores. I spray a light coat of silicone spray on top and mix into the bowl of rough cores. I do this to provide the lubricant so that my rough cores don't start running stiff in my die. I make as many cores as I have time to make. Make as many as you can. Having one press set up for core making allows you to come and make cores any time you want. Making a couple thousand cores keeps you ready when you want to make a run of bullets.

Core Cleaning
After you make the core you need to clean them before you core seat them.
Ther are several ways of doing this and personal preference wins out as all the ones I have heard of do a good job. Ways I have heard of are TSP in boiling water, acetone, white gas, carbon met chloride, and white vinegar in water. I start by taking my cores place them in a funnel shaped collander and flush with rubbing alcohol. This process gives a first step cleaning of the cores removing the loose lead shavings and grime from core making. Next I take a 2 qt cooking pot fill it half full of water add several ounces of white vinegar and dump the cores in. Stir cores around let sit 15-20 minutes. Now I take a second fummel shaped collander dump the cores in and flush for 5 minutes under running warm water. The flushing process is necessary to stop the etching process the vinegar started on the cores. Last roll cores out on a dry towel and let them dry.

Bullet Making Reading
First check the BRC Articles and FAQ sections. Good articles there. Also 'The Benchrest Shooting Primer' has several good articles on bullet making. Old Rifle and Handloader magazines have articles written on bullet making.

That's it for this memo. Keep the comments coming in. See some of the experienced bullet makers are talking bullet making. The more the better. Next we can talk Core Seating. I would hope we can continute the Bullet Making Thread till the bullets are done.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
 
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BR Bullet making

Stephen " GOOD POST
You have Simonsons dies? I have a set also Carbide .
They are a 7 1/2 ogive. They Make Great Bullets.
I'll copy down you formula for lube if you don't mind.
It sounds good.
I do things a little different but come to the same End a Quality bullet.
I guess the basics are what count and putting your own little twist on is ok
As long as the bullet will still shoot.
I am fortunate. I can drive to a wire company in Rochester NY
I can get Nice clean fresh wire , without any oxidation on it for a decent price. Last time i bought several hundred pounds .
The size wire i use is not the .188. thats just for 22 cal bullets. Yes it works for the 6mm. but i wanted a better fit for my die .
My wire for the 6MM is .195 I wind up with a tad less waste this way.
My cores are cut about . 8 tenths 0f a grain heavy. i have little trouble making final core weight. On the 30 cal i use nice clean 1/4 inch wire from the same company. They wrap the wire on 25lb spools and they are final wraped in Saran wrap to keep it clean.
I also do some other things making cores.
Some people may object to what i do but it works.
I use plain tap water to lube my cores when squirting. Yes Tap water. No oils grease or other lubes. IT WORKS and doesn't plug up the die.
If you don't put anything on you don't have to take anything off.
When im done swaging I take the die out break it down dry it, clean it, a tad of WD 40 a wipe and it's ready.
I Don't etch my cores either. I have no problem with torque making my bullet cores come loose. I use pure lead without Antimony also.
Core seating is important Make sure your bleed back is non existant.
Core pressure must be uniform from bullet to bullet so keep the cores close to weight. I only allow 1/ 10 grain difference in my core . so my 68 gr bullets are 67.9 or 68on the nose. each one in mated to it's core . before core seating. I usually run my die cold. My best bullets come out in the summer time , when the air conditioning is running,
Enough for now . More if you want.
 
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