Bullet Making (originally owned by Stephen Perry)

Gerry said:
NADER:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
Al thanks up on the heads up on the Article Too.
George"
A photo of the press would be nice. Think some one has a photo to post?
It would be nnice to show the guys what B&A were doing.
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Gerry, I haven't figured out how to post a pic here, but here's a link to a pic in my photo album on the SGR forum - if dead animal pics bug ya, don't look too far either side of this pic . . . http://www.bench-talk.com/photos/r_g_robinett/picture802.aspx

The original B&A design is very well suited to core-seating all calibers, up to, at least, thirty, and pointing .22 and .24 caliber bullets, but, for pointing thirty calibers, the B&A comes up short on leverage - as do most presses. :eek: RG
 
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Br bullet making

Yes i have noticed a bit of fatigue on my arm when making 30s:D
The either or B+A press might be a solution.
Of course the leverage could be changes. Still i would hate to be using a mite might . :D
I don't know if you ever used one , they were great for 22s,
I bet you would have arms like a gorrilla useing a
small one like that. or the herters bullet press.
I talked to george.
He said he had improved linkage on a B+A style Press.
My good friend Tony made a B+A style press years ago. It had better linkage and a massive handle with about 10 pounds of weight added.
He made heavy 7mms on it , with a set of his own dies.
Those were the fun days.
 
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Br bullet making

I checked your link out RG.
Nice photos of the B+A style press.
I was offered an air assist set up }conversion for my press.
But then It wouldn't be a hand swaged bullet.
With the limited amount of time i devote to making bullets ,...
I'll stick to what i have.
The old A2 works pretty well for me. Of course you never know. If george has time in the future i may ask if he will make a B+A press in the future.
 
Mr.Robinett,

Can you provide a link or contact info on the person who did your Lee press conversion? I heard that something has to be done to the ram linkage in order for it to work properly as a swaging press.
 
Here's a photo of his B&A style press that R.G. refered to. -Al

bapress.jpg
 
Nader said:
All this B&A nostalgia from Rochester,NY is making me feel quite Parisian.Like Felix Nadar who photographed Claude Monet at the turn of the 20th century.Quite the time warp parallel.
Being only minutes away from Downtown Rochester I think I'll don a beret and hang outside RIT with a Starbucks coffee and see if I can strike up a conversation with some other aspiring bullet makers. "pardon me garcon',what ogive do you prefer for Short range BR"? "You there,madomoselle,I would like to discuss core seating pressure with you",,,Do not run away,I mean no offense", " what lubricant do you use? " "I have a rather large meplat, come back".
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Now, that's funny! :D

Going Parisian would also require you to discontinue the use of deodorant, adopt a haughty attitude and have that weird little upward turn at the left corner of the lip. :eek:

Best just to stay they way 'ya are and toss out some Renaissance-speak when needed...just to let 'em know you're not an 'Ugly American'. ;)

"Avez-vous des pensées sur la passementerie metplats pour la société nationale des chemins de fer britanniques de gamme courte?" *

Get's 'em every time...........:cool: :)


*"Do you have any thoughts on trimming metplats for short range BR"?
 
andre3k said:
Mr.Robinett,

Can you provide a link or contact info on the person who did your Lee press conversion? I heard that something has to be done to the ram linkage in order for it to work properly as a swaging press.
Click to expand...

I did the LEE CLASSIC conversions myself (well, with the help of, BIG MIKE, my alter-ego. :eek:). Stu Harvey, long-time BR competitor and bullet maker (a very savvy and crafty sort:)), who lives in the PEOPLES REPUBLIC of KALIFORNIA, then did at least one LEE CLASSIC conversion - maybe more - which was altered to, cam-over, or, "go over top-dead-center" - these well designed and extremely well machined presses are readily adaptable/modifiable for bullet swaging, including converting to a 'cam-over' style, which I'm no longer certain is "proper" . . . it looks like there remain many ways to, 'skin the cat'! :D

I haven't gotten around to making a 'cam-over" conversion yet, as I have come to like and appreciate the 'dead-stop' - it takes a little getting used to. ;) I have substanitally increased the leverage (by about 1/3rd), while maintaining the user-friendly actuation radius/arc, by simply 're-positioning' the linkage-strap holes further forward.

So far, on each of the six I own, I have been able to assemble the 'adaptor kit' , install a Niemi point-up punch, run the ram to the TOP of the stroke, then, screw the point-up die down over the punch - I have yet to observe or, feel any contact/movement of the punch! :eek::) Try THAT with any of the RCBS, or other offerings . . . or, just ask Stu what he observed/experienced via his LEE CLASSIC conversion(s)!:eek:;) But, I'm not certain that Stu lurks here . . . some of his wisdom/knowledge would prove most useful.:)

Using the LEE CLASSIC wasn't my idea - THAT came from none other than Ferris Pindell, whom my spies, having gotten it, 'straight for the horses mouth', decided to ignore . . . :rolleyes: I may be a BALLISTIC IDIOT, but I ain't stupid!:p Just don't be askin' for my secret lube formula, what color my socks are, or other proprietary info - for THAT, look up Rich Griffin! :p RG
 
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Hi
Ive been reading this thread with a lot of interest because i have just started out my self ,i have a set of 30 cal dies made by Niemi and i have my first big problem ,i have all three bleed by holes cloged,so if any help would sure be appreciated.
Thanks in advance Remy:confused:
 
Remy, take a unsquirted core goop up with bullet lube and adjust die down slowly until the lead that is blocking it pops out. george
 
Al Nyhus said:
Now, that's funny! :D

Going Parisian would also require you to discontinue the use of deodorant, adopt a haughty attitude and have that weird little upward turn at the left corner of the lip. :eek:

Best just to stay they way 'ya are and toss out some Renaissance-speak when needed...just to let 'em know you're not an 'Ugly American'. ;)

"Avez-vous des pensées sur la passementerie metplats pour la société nationale des chemins de fer britanniques de gamme courte?" *

Get's 'em every time...........:cool: :)


*"Do you have any thoughts on trimming metplats for short range BR"?
Click to expand...

Je ne savais pas que le Sociiety nationale des chemins de fer britanniques étaient en tir BR.
 
Remington, Sierra, and Speer BR Bullets

The BR Bullet Making Thread is winding down after being on the Forum since March 2. I wanted to save the factory BR bullet comments for last.

Sierra bullets were used in benchrest since the early days of NBRSA benchrest. Sierra started making bullets in 1947 and soon found their way into the BR shoots. Olive Walker used Sierra bullets in 1950 to shoot a 10 shot 100 yd group measuring .3268, the read groups to 4 places back then.
She used the then new .222 Rem cartridge and the also new Rem 722 action with a 1.2" dia barrel, what we we today call a Cruiser bag gun.

Sierra bullets especially the 22's were regularly used by some very good shooters like Tom Gillman. Tom is one of the original 6 inducted into the BR HoF members. He used both 22 and 6 bullets in his Tom Cat cartridges. Tom won many National titles back in the 60-70's. Tom could have used any of the fine custom bullets of the time but chose to use Sierra's. I recall Sierra bullets in equipment reports in the 1970's. The Sierra 52/53 grn 22 bullets were good bullets BR quality. The Sierra 68 BR BT is a fine 6 bullet.

For many years Ferris Pindell and Arvie Martin worked at Sierra in So Cal designing and building bullet making dies and equipment. Arvie built the first carbide dies that Sierra used. Sierra also had a 200 yd testing tunnel that I visited many times to visit with Martin Hull as I watched him test Sierra bullets with the colletion of rail gun barrelled actions that Sierra used

Speer makes some fine target bullets. Speer sponsored the Speer Shoots these were BR shoots in the mid 60's if I remember correctly. These shoots were shoots similar to todays Super Shoot designed as money shoots there was even awards given to those that won with Speer bullets. Allen Bench set a 10 shot record group measuring .143 in 1964 using Speer Silver Match bullets I assume in Unlimited.

Remington felt the need to make BR bullets. Some time I'm not sure when, late 60's, Remington made 22 and 6 benchrest bullets. Hand swaged bullets on not sure on dies they made or bought. These were damned good bullets as good as anything made today. I bought 3000 once at a factory closeout for a good price. Like I said these bullets were as good as any bullets I have shot since.

Others have made good bullets for the target shooter. Most every bullet company made top quality 22 cal bullet. Though today most if not all buy BR bullets come from Custom bullet makers there are still shooters that do just fine with 'factory' bullets at their home Range. And then there are the varmint hunters that want acurracy as well as bullet performance for long shots.

Hope I didn't step on too many toes in this Bullet Making Thread.

Stephen Perry
Angeles BR
 
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DanO said:
To swing this thread in a new direction, I am interested in hearing about some of your quality control methods.
What measurements do you take of jackets, cores, finished product, and how do you track/record this data?
What is it you are looking for in each of the measurement steps?
Examples of spread sheets or other would be interesting to view.
What perimeters do you use to establish lot numbers for your runs? Jacket lot numbers? One day volume? Batched by the bucket?

Thanks
DanO
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DanO asked a few questions about QC etc but the question seems to have been overlooked.

I would also be interested in what various measurements people make on jackets etc, I know the best QC is how it performs on target but what do some of you look for before you get to a completed match bullet.

Also what are some of the problems that can be encountered during bullet making and what are the cures for these.
I have seen a couple of Q&A like blocked bleed holes in squirt dies, when a problem like this is encountered is the next core of match quality or not?

Ian
 
Ian_Owen said:
DanO asked a few questions about QC etc but the question seems to have been overlooked.

I would also be interested in what various measurements people make on jackets etc, I know the best QC is how it performs on target but what do some of you look for before you get to a completed match bullet.

Also what are some of the problems that can be encountered during bullet making and what are the cures for these.
I have seen a couple of Q&A like blocked bleed holes in squirt dies, when a problem like this is encountered is the next core of match quality or not?

Ian
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Hi Ian how are you mate. I think they would pass on a question like this as it relates directly to how good a bullet is or is not.
If you are making bullets for yourself it's a different proposition to making them to sell.
The fact is that to make them quick enough to make money you could not really measure and mic each individual jacket.
They may mic a few jackets from a new batch for wall thickness consistancy ( cocentricity) to check they are getting good jackets from the supplier and check they are the right diameter and length.
You could weigh a few to see if you have to adjust core weights.
Thats about it I rekon. Thats why they came up with J4 jackets to increas the over the counter concentricity of jackets.
It would take a book to answer your last question but generaly it is not that hard to make your own very accurate bullets .
If you go at the process with a well read and gentle approach.
The main problems I see beginners having is, stuck bullets in the point former.
Not using proper lubricants.
Few know that an unsuitable lubricant will detonate at bullet swaging pressures . You don't hear a bang or anything but the bullet comes out with slight black soot on it. This can cause hard ejection.
Bleed by of the cores during swaging bad puch choice .
Excessive or not enough pressure used to seat cores.
Poor bullet design , not enough weight in the core to fill out the ogive properly. Creating a center of gravity move that makes the bullet unstable in a twist that should stablise it's length ( B grenades) .
The bleed holes are always blocked everytime you make a core new lead pushe's out the old lead and some stays behind waiting for the next core. If you lube properly this is not an issue at all. Never cleaned a bleed hole in 25 years but I do lube well.
The way to make good accurate cores is to double swage them.
The whole process of hand swaging is QC in essence because it removes nearly all the variables that come into play with mass produced bullets.
 
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Bullet making

I am reading all of the threads on Bullet making and I thank every one for the insight.
I have a question? I am thinking about making a plate to go under my presses that will lean them back 20 degrees and make a longer ram arm. Is this what
some of you guys do? I see Al has a press that looks like it lays down. Who made this press? What Electronic scale is being used to weigh the lubes?
And where can you get accurate scale check weights?. Or is the one that
comes with the scale accurate enough? I have several weights and they all seem to vary in actual weight on my Toledo and my RCBS.

thanks again and God Bless &
 
marlowjoe said:
I am reading all of the threads on Bullet making and I thank every one for the insight.
I have a question? I am thinking about making a plate to go under my presses that will lean them back 20 degrees and make a longer ram arm. Is this what
some of you guys do? I see Al has a press that looks like it lays down. Who made this press? What Electronic scale is being used to weigh the lubes?
And where can you get accurate scale check weights?. Or is the one that
comes with the scale accurate enough? I have several weights and they all seem to vary in actual weight on my Toledo and my RCBS.

thanks again and God Bless &
Click to expand...

You may like this - try it. I have one station, set-up this way (about 15 Deg. from horisontal), where I switch presses (Niemi converted RockChuckers and/or my own LEE CLASSIC conversions) to point various small caliber bullets (25 cal and <) and to seat cores (all calibers). At this station, I sit down and PULL the lever into my chest (great ergonomics - wears out the other side of the joints/muscles! :D), which makes for a welcome break in the routine! :eek:;) This mounting also accommodates more easily 'catching' ejected bullets, and also prevents them falling onto the punch . . . the pull action dictates a very solid bench/work station. RG
 
marlowjoe said:
I am reading all of the threads on Bullet making and I thank every one for the insight.
I have a question? I am thinking about making a plate to go under my presses that will lean them back 20 degrees and make a longer ram arm. Is this what
some of you guys do? I see Al has a press that looks like it lays down. Who made this press? What Electronic scale is being used to weigh the lubes?
And where can you get accurate scale check weights?. Or is the one that
comes with the scale accurate enough? I have several weights and they all seem to vary in actual weight on my Toledo and my RCBS.

thanks again and God Bless &
Click to expand...

Most home bullet swagers don't obsess over lube quantities .
You can make very good bullets by just rubbing some lube on your loading hand . You give the core or jacket a roll between your fingers and it is good to go. Some people use ink type pads that same as for cartridge cases and some tumble the cut cores and seated jackets witha measured ammount of lube. I started this way and gave it up as uneccessary , and time consuming.
The jacket diameters were no different to applying the lube by hand once you get the hang of it.
Even when point forming this method still produces correct bullet diameters but you don't over lube them. Usually the amount of lube that is left from the core seating process is all I need to point form. If I think the ejection is getting a bit sticky then I put a bit extra on the next bullet.

The point forming process is the one that can be effected by too little or too much lube. However it takes a whole lot of extra lube to make a small difference so sensible aplication results in good bullets.
 
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