Birchwood Casey Lead Removal Cloth
- Thread starter mrh1958
- Start date
lead remover
The gunsmith who put my rifle together warned against using it or a simillar product. He had had a customer before give a barrel a good working over & claimed it ruined it.
I use shooters choice lead remover & a brush & occasionally Isso Bore Paste. When my barrel was looked at with a bore scope I was told that there was no lead in the bore.
I'm sure others will share as well.
Keith
The gunsmith who put my rifle together warned against using it or a simillar product. He had had a customer before give a barrel a good working over & claimed it ruined it.
I use shooters choice lead remover & a brush & occasionally Isso Bore Paste. When my barrel was looked at with a bore scope I was told that there was no lead in the bore.
I'm sure others will share as well.
Keith
J
jerry t mcfall
Guest
Lead removal
Very easy will surprise you how easy to clean the lead as I just use it for cleaning chamber.
That's scary......anyone else have this problem? I have not tried it yet.
Lead Out
I searched back through some emails to find out which product my smith was taking about. I've copied & pasted what was relayed to me below. It was NOT the Birchwood product.
I have personally, as well as one of my customers ruined our barrels at different times with a product called “Lead Out” sold at Gander Mountain. It was a thin cloth product that obviously had some abrasive imbedded in it. Even knowing that, The product you used would not harm the barrel in any way.
I searched back through some emails to find out which product my smith was taking about. I've copied & pasted what was relayed to me below. It was NOT the Birchwood product.
I have personally, as well as one of my customers ruined our barrels at different times with a product called “Lead Out” sold at Gander Mountain. It was a thin cloth product that obviously had some abrasive imbedded in it. Even knowing that, The product you used would not harm the barrel in any way.
"Birchwood Casey Lead Removal Cloth" I'm not familiar with this product so I can't provide feedback on it. It was mentioned recently and they stated they got good results with it. This is the process I follow. I mix Shooters Choice, not the one for lead removal, but the standard one and Kroil at a 1 to 1 ratio. I run 1 wet patch then 2-3 dry patches after each target. At approx. every 2-4 targets, depending on many sighters I've shot, I take a nylon brush and clean the chamber/leade area with about 20-25 strokes. About every 10-12 targets I give the whole barrel about 4-5 strokes with the above mixture with a nylon brush.
At approx. 20-30 targets I will clean the chamber/leade area with Isso and use a worn nylon brush with a patch wrapped around it. Again about 20-25 strokes. I then run about 3-4 very wet patches of the SC/Kroil mixture through the barrel, then 6-8 dry patches to clean out the Isso.
Just to note I'm talking ARA targets. To provide some idea of how many shots per target when I start on a clean barrel, I shoot 5 shots to prepare the barrel. Then I shoot 5-10 sighters to make sure everything is ready to go before I go out on target for score. Depending on the condition I will shoot another 10-30 sighters. So at the low end I'll shoot about 45 shots per target and the high end 70 shots.
Anyway, the above process has worked for me. I've not checked the barrel with a bore scope since last year but when we did it appeared clean as a whistle.
Les
At approx. 20-30 targets I will clean the chamber/leade area with Isso and use a worn nylon brush with a patch wrapped around it. Again about 20-25 strokes. I then run about 3-4 very wet patches of the SC/Kroil mixture through the barrel, then 6-8 dry patches to clean out the Isso.
Just to note I'm talking ARA targets. To provide some idea of how many shots per target when I start on a clean barrel, I shoot 5 shots to prepare the barrel. Then I shoot 5-10 sighters to make sure everything is ready to go before I go out on target for score. Depending on the condition I will shoot another 10-30 sighters. So at the low end I'll shoot about 45 shots per target and the high end 70 shots.
Anyway, the above process has worked for me. I've not checked the barrel with a bore scope since last year but when we did it appeared clean as a whistle.
Les
Pete Wass
Well-known member
What I have found
is lead and carbon will accumulate in layers, and I am now thinking, under layers of wax or mixed up with wax, at any rate and if one shoots their rifle all day, even with cleaning it during the day, there will still layers built up that continue to grow if they are not removed. I think I can also see that cut barrels foul more then buttoned barrels. It is all very subtle but the layers are real. When one has finally removed all the layers they will get white patches and feel no resistance, otherwise, there is still fouling present.
is lead and carbon will accumulate in layers, and I am now thinking, under layers of wax or mixed up with wax, at any rate and if one shoots their rifle all day, even with cleaning it during the day, there will still layers built up that continue to grow if they are not removed. I think I can also see that cut barrels foul more then buttoned barrels. It is all very subtle but the layers are real. When one has finally removed all the layers they will get white patches and feel no resistance, otherwise, there is still fouling present.
If you're waiting for white patches you're going to clean the lands right out of the barrel..........again.
Pete Wass
Well-known member
This won't surprise ya but
I don't agree Tim. Bronze gives up long before SS does. How much carbon and lead are you willing to ignore? Until one has a white patch, they still have both in their barrel. I clean until I can see there is still a layer of wax with very little coloration in it. That is what I call a white patch. Of course, the Eley folks think the wax burns immediately but I can't seem to agree with them either.
Pete
I don't agree Tim. Bronze gives up long before SS does. How much carbon and lead are you willing to ignore? Until one has a white patch, they still have both in their barrel. I clean until I can see there is still a layer of wax with very little coloration in it. That is what I call a white patch. Of course, the Eley folks think the wax burns immediately but I can't seem to agree with them either.
Pete
Pete Wass
Well-known member
It is difficult to see all the carbon and lead buildup with a borescope, even with a LED upgrade. When my barrels look shiny, they still usually have layers of carbon and lead in them when I shoot them more than one card without thoroughly cleaning them. I will admit that my barrels will shoot pretty well dirty, to a point but the problem comes when, over time, layers of carbon and lead are compressed. When the time comes to take it out, it comes out slowly.
Part of the issue for me is when I run my matches and shoot, I don't get time to clean, very well, between matches. Over the day of 6 cards, the layers build up. I have seen folks write here that they never brush their barrels. I have to wonder if they ever get them clean.
Thanks Pete & Bill for the veteran advise. I'm sure there are several ways to get the lead out. The important thing is obviously not harming the bore.
Have either of you tried the Birchwood or Lead Out products? I never have so I don't know how abrasive they are. Its hard for me to believe that one could "scrub" the rifling away with either.
Kinda makes me want to pick both up to see how abrasive each are.
Keith
Have either of you tried the Birchwood or Lead Out products? I never have so I don't know how abrasive they are. Its hard for me to believe that one could "scrub" the rifling away with either.
Kinda makes me want to pick both up to see how abrasive each are.
Keith
Pete Wass
Well-known member
I have the Birchwood Casey and a Foul/ Lead Out machine
I don't like the Birchwood Casey because of the way the patches act. They are very tight going in but quickly loosen up. What I don't know is if the deal is a chemical reaction or the initial stroke mechanically taking the lead out but in my opinion, after one stroke there is not enough resistance to do any mechanical good. The last time I tried the Foul Out/ Lead Out it wouldn't work; electrical perhaps. It's an old one from the early 90's when I began this madness.
I had a long conversation with one of our top shooters yesterday. Cleaning came up. He has his own procedure and says most people have their own process. Some will only pull a brush through their bore and not many times and some use nothing but patches, some use nylon brushes; it's all over the ball park. I saw a quote one here once, some time ago by someone who was very well respected in this game. He said he could duplicate clean but if his barrel was dirty to any degree, he was never sure where he was at or when accuracy would fall off.
Take a used brush sometime and start sawing it on a piece of Stainless. See how long it takes you to wear a noticeable hole or groove. This will tell you how much you can use a bronze brush. Mebby the trick is to develop a baseline of fouling, if one can, and try to stick to it. The problem with getting "Real Clean" is directly related to the number of shots fired, from my experience. Once I think I have the throat clean, I leave a patch soaked with the Lead remover a few hours in the throat. If the patch has any gray on it, there is lead present. I have also found lead present in other areas in the barrel. Perhaps I should try to get my Lead Out machine working to see what it says. I know it works because I have seen lead on the rod more than once in the past. It's pretty easy to tell, with a clean patch, what the inside of the bore feels like. Any resistance is generally a sign of fouling and most often, from my experience, there will be radial black marks on the patch if fouling is present. I have seen though, resistance without any radial marks. Brush the barrel again and you often get a black or gray patch. I believe this to be a layer of carbon/lead covered with a baked on layer of wax. Perhaps someo f the barrels folks give up on or think they are shot out are, in reality simply fouled beyond their accuracy potential.
Interestingly enough to me is I have seen heavy lead deposits at the 5:00 position in the throats of my barrels, when they were newer. As the leade has been eroding, I have not seen it there in such copious quantities. Both my Rock Creek barrels shoot their best when they are very clean. We'll see what the Ratchet likes I guess.
I don't like the Birchwood Casey because of the way the patches act. They are very tight going in but quickly loosen up. What I don't know is if the deal is a chemical reaction or the initial stroke mechanically taking the lead out but in my opinion, after one stroke there is not enough resistance to do any mechanical good. The last time I tried the Foul Out/ Lead Out it wouldn't work; electrical perhaps. It's an old one from the early 90's when I began this madness.
I had a long conversation with one of our top shooters yesterday. Cleaning came up. He has his own procedure and says most people have their own process. Some will only pull a brush through their bore and not many times and some use nothing but patches, some use nylon brushes; it's all over the ball park. I saw a quote one here once, some time ago by someone who was very well respected in this game. He said he could duplicate clean but if his barrel was dirty to any degree, he was never sure where he was at or when accuracy would fall off.
Take a used brush sometime and start sawing it on a piece of Stainless. See how long it takes you to wear a noticeable hole or groove. This will tell you how much you can use a bronze brush. Mebby the trick is to develop a baseline of fouling, if one can, and try to stick to it. The problem with getting "Real Clean" is directly related to the number of shots fired, from my experience. Once I think I have the throat clean, I leave a patch soaked with the Lead remover a few hours in the throat. If the patch has any gray on it, there is lead present. I have also found lead present in other areas in the barrel. Perhaps I should try to get my Lead Out machine working to see what it says. I know it works because I have seen lead on the rod more than once in the past. It's pretty easy to tell, with a clean patch, what the inside of the bore feels like. Any resistance is generally a sign of fouling and most often, from my experience, there will be radial black marks on the patch if fouling is present. I have seen though, resistance without any radial marks. Brush the barrel again and you often get a black or gray patch. I believe this to be a layer of carbon/lead covered with a baked on layer of wax. Perhaps someo f the barrels folks give up on or think they are shot out are, in reality simply fouled beyond their accuracy potential.
Interestingly enough to me is I have seen heavy lead deposits at the 5:00 position in the throats of my barrels, when they were newer. As the leade has been eroding, I have not seen it there in such copious quantities. Both my Rock Creek barrels shoot their best when they are very clean. We'll see what the Ratchet likes I guess.
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