D
dion
Guest
Should I measure each Bullet's bearing surface?
G
Gerry
Guest
Bearing surface
It's a waste of time. The one thing you should measure is the ogive location.
Seating depth is more important.
It's a waste of time. The one thing you should measure is the ogive location.
Seating depth is more important.
jackie schmidt
New member
Dion
If you are talking about true custom Benchrest Bullets, ie those made by an individule using a single die, all at the same time, with components all from a same lot number, it is a waste of time to do anything more than seat them and shoot them.
However, if you are talking about mass produced bullets, or those that fall into the category of "semi-custom", then sorting might be of some benefit.
Here is why. If, for instance, you get a box of the more popular "semi custom" bullets, there is no guarantee that the bullets were all made at one sitting, or, for that matter, that they all even came from the same die.
As far as I know, no true custom bullet maker mixes bullets from different lots of jackets, or from a different lot of production. If you buy 1000 Barts, Brunos, Gentners, Cheeks, etc, they will be made at the same sitting, same cores, jackets, lubing, core seating or what ever else goes into making a true custom hand swagged bullet...........jackie
If you are talking about true custom Benchrest Bullets, ie those made by an individule using a single die, all at the same time, with components all from a same lot number, it is a waste of time to do anything more than seat them and shoot them.
However, if you are talking about mass produced bullets, or those that fall into the category of "semi-custom", then sorting might be of some benefit.
Here is why. If, for instance, you get a box of the more popular "semi custom" bullets, there is no guarantee that the bullets were all made at one sitting, or, for that matter, that they all even came from the same die.
As far as I know, no true custom bullet maker mixes bullets from different lots of jackets, or from a different lot of production. If you buy 1000 Barts, Brunos, Gentners, Cheeks, etc, they will be made at the same sitting, same cores, jackets, lubing, core seating or what ever else goes into making a true custom hand swagged bullet...........jackie
T
Tony Shankle
Guest
I sort all my long range bullets by bearing surface. For me it made a difference that is worth the effort. I know I posted this in a centerfire area but I notice that your location said you are close to a 1000 yard range.
A
abintx
Guest
G
Gerry
Guest
Bearing surface
Tony'
If your using mass produced bullets and they are the same lot they should be ok.
Best mass produced bullet i know of is burger and you won't have to measure bearing surface. They are That good
Tony'
If your using mass produced bullets and they are the same lot they should be ok.
Best mass produced bullet i know of is burger and you won't have to measure bearing surface. They are That good
T
Tony Shankle
Guest
Gerry,
You must be getting better bullets than I get!
Once again, I am talking about long range VLD bullets since he was a new poster and I wasn't sure of his intent but...
1. In my test of the mass produced bullets, actually the Lapua Scenars top the Bergers for consistency in bearing surface. Bergers did come in a close second. The Lapua's also won hands down in sorting by weight even against some of the customs.
2. Even with the VLD customs (not going to call out names on here) I still have to measure and sort by bearing surface.
We may just have to agree to disagree on this one Gerry.
Now I'm getting out of this forum before someone makes me buy a PPC!
You must be getting better bullets than I get!
Once again, I am talking about long range VLD bullets since he was a new poster and I wasn't sure of his intent but...
1. In my test of the mass produced bullets, actually the Lapua Scenars top the Bergers for consistency in bearing surface. Bergers did come in a close second. The Lapua's also won hands down in sorting by weight even against some of the customs.
2. Even with the VLD customs (not going to call out names on here) I still have to measure and sort by bearing surface.
We may just have to agree to disagree on this one Gerry.
Now I'm getting out of this forum before someone makes me buy a PPC!
Pete Wass
Well-known member
I would also echo
the fact that it makes no difference who made the bullets, there are precious few perfect bullet lots. What one finds is the typical Bell Curve with most of them. While many lots will be very close to the same one will almost always find a few that are WAAAAY off and it's those few that will Kill ya. I am in the camp of measuring.
I thought I might be able to cure this situation with a fatter seating stem that allowed the bullets to fit in it closer to where the bullet will touch the lands but ALAS, it did not work to my satisfaction. My advice is to measure if you want to be sure.
Remember when weighing powder was scoffed at? Well, Bullet Measuring just may be the next relevation !
the fact that it makes no difference who made the bullets, there are precious few perfect bullet lots. What one finds is the typical Bell Curve with most of them. While many lots will be very close to the same one will almost always find a few that are WAAAAY off and it's those few that will Kill ya. I am in the camp of measuring.
I thought I might be able to cure this situation with a fatter seating stem that allowed the bullets to fit in it closer to where the bullet will touch the lands but ALAS, it did not work to my satisfaction. My advice is to measure if you want to be sure.
Remember when weighing powder was scoffed at? Well, Bullet Measuring just may be the next relevation !
J
j mckinnie
Guest
bullet makers
dont all have batch numbers and the weight difference in these bullets is amazing.After weighing some and measuring I found the heavier ones were the also the longer ones only bullets I shoot straight from the box are aussie made copperheads thanks Ken.
dont all have batch numbers and the weight difference in these bullets is amazing.After weighing some and measuring I found the heavier ones were the also the longer ones only bullets I shoot straight from the box are aussie made copperheads thanks Ken.
G
Gerry
Guest
Bearing surface
Could be i am just lucky' How much can you expect from a factory bullet,
They go to great lengths to make the best they can.
I'm lucky i can make my own although i am limited to a few calibers.
Most of the best shooting larger caliber bullets that i have bought .
I bought from friends that purchased them at Camp perry'
\ Some of these lots were really hot too, 168 and 150 match
Could be i am just lucky' How much can you expect from a factory bullet,
They go to great lengths to make the best they can.
I'm lucky i can make my own although i am limited to a few calibers.
Most of the best shooting larger caliber bullets that i have bought .
I bought from friends that purchased them at Camp perry'
\ Some of these lots were really hot too, 168 and 150 match
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bryan
Bryan Armatys
Same sitting...............
As far as I know, no true custom bullet maker mixes bullets from different lots of jackets, or from a different lot of production. If you buy 1000 Barts, Brunos, Gentners, Cheeks, etc, they will be made at the same sitting, same cores, jackets, lubing, core seating or what ever else goes into making a true custom hand swagged bullet...........jackie
Pardon my lack of knowledge on the "quote" part of this forum...........the preceeding was a cut and paste thing.
For Jackie and anyone else who thinks their bullet maker is going to take an order for 5K of bullets and do it in the same sitting, think again. Ain't gonna happen! Anyone know how many hours it takes to make a thousand bullets? Let alone your pet order for 5 or 10K?
1. Jackets are ordered in Bulk and are shipped all the same lot #. Leftovers from these lots are shipped to users who only want a bucket or 2.
2. Cores are squirted in bulk................. if you buy them or make them yourself they are done and done and done till you have a ready supply.
3. Each bullet maker has his own strategy on climate control, temp of the dies, how many "first pulls" are culled to fireforming bullets, AND How he measures the final product to insure it's as close as possible to the bullets he made yesterday, or last week, or a year ago.
4. If your bullet maker continually adjusts his dies, his bullets will be continually different, lot to lot.
Consistancy is the name of the game, and you simply can't get that by hiring grunts to pull the handles.
Honor your bullet maker...........take him to dinner when you have the opportunity..............and don't second guess him.
Bryan
As far as I know, no true custom bullet maker mixes bullets from different lots of jackets, or from a different lot of production. If you buy 1000 Barts, Brunos, Gentners, Cheeks, etc, they will be made at the same sitting, same cores, jackets, lubing, core seating or what ever else goes into making a true custom hand swagged bullet...........jackie
Pardon my lack of knowledge on the "quote" part of this forum...........the preceeding was a cut and paste thing.
For Jackie and anyone else who thinks their bullet maker is going to take an order for 5K of bullets and do it in the same sitting, think again. Ain't gonna happen! Anyone know how many hours it takes to make a thousand bullets? Let alone your pet order for 5 or 10K?
1. Jackets are ordered in Bulk and are shipped all the same lot #. Leftovers from these lots are shipped to users who only want a bucket or 2.
2. Cores are squirted in bulk................. if you buy them or make them yourself they are done and done and done till you have a ready supply.
3. Each bullet maker has his own strategy on climate control, temp of the dies, how many "first pulls" are culled to fireforming bullets, AND How he measures the final product to insure it's as close as possible to the bullets he made yesterday, or last week, or a year ago.
4. If your bullet maker continually adjusts his dies, his bullets will be continually different, lot to lot.
Consistancy is the name of the game, and you simply can't get that by hiring grunts to pull the handles.
Honor your bullet maker...........take him to dinner when you have the opportunity..............and don't second guess him.
Bryan
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While many lots will be very close to the same one will almost always find a few that are WAAAAY off and it's those few that will Kill ya.
'Morning, Pete. What do you consider to be "WAAAAY off" when you measure base-to-ogive? Does your device match the ogive profile or is it a fixed diameter?
Good shootin'.
-Al
Pete Wass
Well-known member
With all due respect Al
This is a Dead Horse conversation in the making.
I just measured 1000 bullets from the same lot from the same bullet maker.The extemes came out to .012 from one side of the measurements to the other. The majority of the bullets fell into 4 sizes and only .004 from one side to the other. the rest of them; perhaps 20 were in different size cups with the extreme spread being .012.
I only know what works for me. If I sort my bullets in the manor I do, I am able to use them all and able to load with very consistent OAL's without adjusting things. I have tried severaal things to try to eliminate the sorting process but to date, none of them have worked for me. I don't care what others think or do. I do think it improtant to educate folks as to what ACTUALLY exists.
I have had a couple of lots of bullets that were very close to being perfect. One of the 1000 lots I bought from a well know bullet maker were only .001 apart. This was when his dies were new I will note. Since then, that persons bullets have gone down hill stearily as far as my measurements are concerned. I don't know if the die's age has anything to do with the situation but it seems to have had.
I have asked the question repeatedly about the variatoion in base to ogive and the best answer I have had, I think, was it had to do with the lube used. The assumption that bullets from the same die are all exactly the same is a serious mistake, IMHO. I believe that people who jam hard and adjust powder never have an issue with bullets but if one depends on a specific measurement to provide accuracy, they had better be sure they are getting correct OAL measurements measured at where the bullets touch the lands. From my testing, a difference of .003 makes a round hole into a mickey mouse face.
'Morning, Pete. What do you consider to be "WAAAAY off" when you measure base-to-ogive? Does your device match the ogive profile or is it a fixed diameter?
Good shootin'.
This is a Dead Horse conversation in the making.
I just measured 1000 bullets from the same lot from the same bullet maker.The extemes came out to .012 from one side of the measurements to the other. The majority of the bullets fell into 4 sizes and only .004 from one side to the other. the rest of them; perhaps 20 were in different size cups with the extreme spread being .012.
I only know what works for me. If I sort my bullets in the manor I do, I am able to use them all and able to load with very consistent OAL's without adjusting things. I have tried severaal things to try to eliminate the sorting process but to date, none of them have worked for me. I don't care what others think or do. I do think it improtant to educate folks as to what ACTUALLY exists.
I have had a couple of lots of bullets that were very close to being perfect. One of the 1000 lots I bought from a well know bullet maker were only .001 apart. This was when his dies were new I will note. Since then, that persons bullets have gone down hill stearily as far as my measurements are concerned. I don't know if the die's age has anything to do with the situation but it seems to have had.
I have asked the question repeatedly about the variatoion in base to ogive and the best answer I have had, I think, was it had to do with the lube used. The assumption that bullets from the same die are all exactly the same is a serious mistake, IMHO. I believe that people who jam hard and adjust powder never have an issue with bullets but if one depends on a specific measurement to provide accuracy, they had better be sure they are getting correct OAL measurements measured at where the bullets touch the lands. From my testing, a difference of .003 makes a round hole into a mickey mouse face.
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W
wolf gray
Guest
Pete,
If you make a mickey mouse face, do you owe Disney a royalty??
Best,
Dan Batko
"Where are we going and why am I in this basket?"
If you make a mickey mouse face, do you owe Disney a royalty??
Best,
Dan Batko
"Where are we going and why am I in this basket?"
bryan
Bryan Armatys
Pete
Pete, bullet lube makes ALL the difference in the consistancy of base to ogive measurements. I've tried them all, and there is only 1 that I have found to be really consistant, but It has to be precisely measured and applied......as in .7 grain of lube (a blob about the size of a BB) for each 600 jackets, and that is enough for both core seating and point forming.
Bryan
Pete, bullet lube makes ALL the difference in the consistancy of base to ogive measurements. I've tried them all, and there is only 1 that I have found to be really consistant, but It has to be precisely measured and applied......as in .7 grain of lube (a blob about the size of a BB) for each 600 jackets, and that is enough for both core seating and point forming.
Bryan
Pete Wass
Well-known member
This is a Dead Horse conversation in the making.
Pete, I was going to describe a method of measuring b-o that gives more reliable info than measuring from a single point on the bullet.......
Pete Wass
Well-known member
With all due respect Al
I have a method that works for me. I am saisfied with what I have. Thanks all the same. It may be all wrong and against "Conventional Wisdom' but it works for me. It is not much different than the method Bob Green uses and there is a large number of others who use this method with success.
I have a method that works for me. I am saisfied with what I have. Thanks all the same. It may be all wrong and against "Conventional Wisdom' but it works for me. It is not much different than the method Bob Green uses and there is a large number of others who use this method with success.
G
Gerry
Guest
bryan hit it on the head,
The jacket weigh differentfrom lot to lot . and you need to adjust the core weight to make a true weight.
runing the dies fast causes heat and changes the size of the die just slightly.
Each one of us who make bullets have there own style too.
Quality control on each stage makes the best bullets.
It's a true labor of love , You'll never get rich making hand swaged bullets . As bryan put it you can't hire just any one to pull handles.
The jacket weigh differentfrom lot to lot . and you need to adjust the core weight to make a true weight.
runing the dies fast causes heat and changes the size of the die just slightly.
Each one of us who make bullets have there own style too.
Quality control on each stage makes the best bullets.
It's a true labor of love , You'll never get rich making hand swaged bullets . As bryan put it you can't hire just any one to pull handles.
G
Gerry
Guest
dion has a problem with his bullets
I told him to contact his supplyer.
They are pretty far from a good match spec.
I told him to contact his supplyer.
They are pretty far from a good match spec.