BAT Trigger Hangers

S

shinny

Shinny
Does anyone know if BAT supplies multiple position trigger hangers with their Multiflat B & MB actions.

If so are they 0-30 or 10-20.

Bat Machine won't be able to answer until next Monday after 3:00pm PST and I if possible, would like to know before then.

Thanx..............
 
Im not 100% sure, but on my octagon Modle B the hanger is a little different and i can not use my other hangers. I have several different hangers with different number combos and they simply wont fit in my octagon B. I also have a couple MB actions but i dont recal if they are the same as the Octagon B or not.
I will say that i have done some side by side testing with different hanger combos, and i didnt see a lick of difference. Go with the one that feels the best when closing the bolt. Thats my opinion. Lee
 
skeetlee said:
Im not 100% sure, but on my octagon Modle B the hanger is a little different and i can not use my other hangers. I have several different hangers with different number combos and they simply wont fit in my octagon B. I also have a couple MB actions but i dont recal if they are the same as the Octagon B or not.
I will say that i have done some side by side testing with different hanger combos, and i didnt see a lick of difference. Go with the one that feels the best when closing the bolt. Thats my opinion. Lee
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Skeet,

Talked with Dwight Scott this pm and he wasn't sure about hangers for the MULTIFLAT actions, as that's what I'm interested in.

He was however, very familiar with the BAT DS's......wonder why?

Thanks for your input.

Shinny
 
Shinny- On Accurate Shooter's site under Guns and Gunsmithing, there is a similar question. You may find an answer there.
 
I have a Bat B multiflat and a couple of DS models. The DS trigger hanger is about half a screw hole too short to work with the B action and .050" or so not getting the trigger to sit high enough in the action to make contact with the cocking piece in the firing pin assembly. I had an extra DS hanger and tried it to see on the Bat B and it wouldn't work with it. I've never seen trigger hangers for a B that were marked with numbers, 0, 10, 20, 30 as the trigger hangers are marked for the DS model.
 
my 3 lug came with 2 hngers as did my DS and they arent inerchangable either.
 
My multiflat BAT B actions do not have adjustable trigger hangers, and the model B hangers are not interchangeable with the hangers on my DS or 3 lug BATs.
 
I once saw a picture of, what I recall to be a Black Widow action and it had an adjustable trigger hanger, a I recall. I wonder why they aren't more popular? It would seem a simple and great addition to any action where timing a trigger mght be necessary.
 
I once saw a picture of, what I recall to be a Black Widow action and it had an adjustable trigger hanger, a I recall. I wonder why they aren't more popular? It would seem a simple and great addition to any action where timing a trigger might be necessary.

"Because i dont think its needed. If they cant build it right from the start then it isnt worth having"

Pete
I know I am a nobody, but I have done some real testing in ideal shooting conditions at my farm, and I see no difference. other than feel. Absolutely none!! Now keep in mind, I measured my groups with calipers, so perhaps I missed something.
I know Jerry stiller did some research in this area, and I think he concluded that pin fall distances do have real merit. but maybe not just the fall distance alone??
I think the bat has around .120 of fall, and the stiller actions closer to .200, I think?? Boyd Allen can help with this, as he is better at retaining this type of info than myself. I personally don’t think just changing the fall distance does much. I think there is a combo of things going on here. fall distance + pin weight, and maybe even firing pin mass. I think its a system rather than just one. All I can say for sure, is what I have seen with my own 2 eyes, and that was no difference what so ever in these bat hangers, other than feel. Lee
 
A friend, who shall remain nameless, found that a trigger that he was trying out did not shoot well at all in his previously accurate 6PPC. He swapped hangers to one that gave him .030 more firing pin fall in the BAT action, and won a 2 gun with the same rifle, and trigger. I think that his action was probably right on the edge as far as the striker assembly went, and the .030 difference in striker fall was therefore significant in that case. The story had a good ending. The manufacturer has since made a change in the trigger, solving the problem. I think that this is a case of a situation where if you have enough of something that is all that is required. On the other hand, too much energy will jar the rifle, and an overly stiff spring make cocking effort more than one would like for benchrest. I think that this example falls under something that I try to get across to shooters that are trying to improve their results. If you want different results, it is usually not a matter of trying harder, but doing something different. Too often people just try harder, or do the same experiment over and over without enough change. My friend changed something...and it worked.
 
Boyd Allen said:
If you want different results, it is usually not a matter of trying harder, but doing something different. Too often people just try harder, or do the same experiment over and over without enough change. My friend changed something...and it worked.
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Albert Einstein: "Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again but expecting different results.":)
 
A 1400$ action shouldnt require anything!!!! Just the way i see it. Thats not to say there wont be issues, but there shouldnt be! Lee
 
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Just to be clear, the fault was in the trigger, and was corrected by the manufacturer of the trigger. The reason for the different trigger hangers is because of variations in trigger dimensions. If all triggers were exactly the same, they shouldn't be needed. Because of bolt lift and vibration considerations, there may be some advantages to designing custom benchrest actions close to the edge on striker fall and momentum, but this carries the risk that other factors will combine to take it over the edge.
 
Boyd is exactly right, the action manufacturers can't be responsible for others' components, unless the action maker was contracted to do a complete build....and provided all the materials.
 
There's been a lot of barrels changed, scopes switched, bullets switched, etc. when the real culprit was the igntion and how all the pieces interact. ;) -Al
 
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Al
your correct. Most folks don’t even realize how important ignition is. I have mentioned this topic a couple times among some of the fellas at our local varmint matches, and they look at me like I am crazy. LOL!!! I have read a couple different articles about Remington and the amount of time money and effort they applied to there ignition system. There is definitely way more to the ignition than most would think. I really like the remington type ignition system compared to some of the other systems out there. I sure have seen a lot of old remington actions that would flat shoot!! I’m sure its not just because of the ignition system, but I do think its part of the reason. I like the way BAT thinks outside the box but I do think they might be missing a little something. I have had several BAT actions, and some of them would shoot really well from the start and some of them need a little work. I don’t know what the determining factors are that causes this, but I am sure its a combination of factors.
Boyd
That's a good point about the triggers, I guess I thought everyone used a jewell, shilen, or kelbly trigger, I can see were there might be some small differences. I have owned all three and I couldn’t see any difference, but that doesn’t mean it isn’t there. Good thinking!! Good topic!!! Just another reason I am so fascinated with this sport. You think you know a little something about something, and the truth is, there's always something to learn. I haven’t experienced any differences with the triggers I have owned so I never thought along those lines. Lee
 
skeetlee said:
I once saw a picture of, what I recall to be a Black Widow action and it had an adjustable trigger hanger, a I recall. I wonder why they aren't more popular? It would seem a simple and great addition to any action where timing a trigger might be necessary.

"Because i dont think its needed. If they cant build it right from the start then it isnt worth having"

Pete
I know I am a nobody, but I have done some real testing in ideal shooting conditions at my farm, and I see no difference. other than feel. Absolutely none!! Now keep in mind, I measured my groups with calipers, so perhaps I missed something.
I know Jerry stiller did some research in this area, and I think he concluded that pin fall distances do have real merit. but maybe not just the fall distance alone??
I think the bat has around .120 of fall, and the stiller actions closer to .200, I think?? Boyd Allen can help with this, as he is better at retaining this type of info than myself. I personally don’t think just changing the fall distance does much. I think there is a combo of things going on here. fall distance + pin weight, and maybe even firing pin mass. I think its a system rather than just one. All I can say for sure, is what I have seen with my own 2 eyes, and that was no difference what so ever in these bat hangers, other than feel. Lee
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I had hoped my point might come to be that if a lad had the latitude to adjust the position of the trigger he may be able to use more then one make of trigger and have options is all. I can't see any down side to options.
 
Dick Grosbier said:
It is not the action at fault , it is the variations between the very popular manufacturers triggers.
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I agree Dick. Just before I read your post here I thought, " Wouldn't it be better if Jewel offered a selection of Sear Lever lengths"? It should be absolutely simple of them to offer them for sale, after all, they are the ones who cut them to size. What might be an appropriate length difference for a selection< .010, .020, .025, .040, .050? Would that cover it? I wouldn't mind having another .025 fall on my B.
 
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Pete Wass said:
I agree Dick. Just before I read your post here I thought, " Wouldn't it be better if Jewel offered a selection of Sear Lever lengths"? It should be absolutely simple of them to offer them for sale, after all, they are the ones who cut them to size. What might be an appropriate length difference for a selection< .010, .020, .025, .040, .050? Would that cover it? I wouldn't mind having another .025 fall on my B.
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Pete
As I understand it that is the problem, they do offer a variety of "Sear Lever Lengths", however you have no choice of what you get. Perhaps Jewel makes the sears by hand and that accounts for the variations. I certainly do not want to bad mouth Jewel triggers as I love them, all my rifles use them, but as I understand it the sear engagement point vary's enough that trigger timing is often necessary.
Dick
 
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