You do the head bob Martin to make sure your parallax is set. That's easy. Only time I've ever consistently seen the bullet is using Eley Lite or a 28" barrel. It makes the bullet slooow. I think you need to rethink that vertical reticle.
You do the head bob Martin to make sure your parallax is set. That's easy. Only time I've ever consistently seen the bullet is using Eley Lite or a 28" barrel. It makes the bullet slooow. I think you need to rethink that vertical reticle.
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martin hammond
Guest
James, no .22 round can travel in an arc unless the barrel is pointed that way. Newton after all these years got it right. and James it appears you now agree with the tuning principle of bullet release as the barrel travels on an upward swing. I knew after you looked and studied it you would come around to our way of thinking. next we'll find out you have been visiting varmint Al's web site daily.
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MKnarr
Guest
You know Martin, every time you post something I find out how stupid I am. Now I find out I don't know how to adjust parallax because I can't always see a 22 bullet. What a crock.
You know I have watched hundreds or highpower rounds go down range in NRA Highpower competition through a spotting scope focused on the target 200 yards away and depending on the light, you can see most bullets but only near the target. They seem to drop out of the sky into the target. How else can a spotter get corrections to the shooter when you are trying to see a bullet hole in a black target.
And not to start another argument but I have never seen a round curve. If they actually do curve why don't you have to make major windage corrections when you move from 200 to 600 yards or from 50 yards to 200 meters with a rimfire? I thought the whole purpose of the rifleing twist was to make a bullet fly true. Yes I do know about the wind effect on bullets both in azimuth as well as elevation but I don't ever remember cranking in windage for different ranges even with my rimfire.
You know I have watched hundreds or highpower rounds go down range in NRA Highpower competition through a spotting scope focused on the target 200 yards away and depending on the light, you can see most bullets but only near the target. They seem to drop out of the sky into the target. How else can a spotter get corrections to the shooter when you are trying to see a bullet hole in a black target.
And not to start another argument but I have never seen a round curve. If they actually do curve why don't you have to make major windage corrections when you move from 200 to 600 yards or from 50 yards to 200 meters with a rimfire? I thought the whole purpose of the rifleing twist was to make a bullet fly true. Yes I do know about the wind effect on bullets both in azimuth as well as elevation but I don't ever remember cranking in windage for different ranges even with my rimfire.
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B. Harvey
Guest
If your scope is actually canted CORRECTLY, it will negate having to dial windage for different yardages.
A perpendicular crosshair, on a scope which actually tracks perfectly, will net you 1-1.5 moa of needed left windage correction at 1K yards, on a centerfire.
Centerfire bullets are spinning at least 3X what a rimfire bullet is spinning, and spin drift is something you need to correct for.
A perpendicular crosshair, on a scope which actually tracks perfectly, will net you 1-1.5 moa of needed left windage correction at 1K yards, on a centerfire.
Centerfire bullets are spinning at least 3X what a rimfire bullet is spinning, and spin drift is something you need to correct for.
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martin hammond
Guest
mknarr read the posts and understand exactly what I am saying. you fly off the handle before comprehending exactly what was said. I am talking about a scope on a rifle not a spotter. a scope on a rifle can only be focused at one distance. it is impossible to have a rifle scope focused at 25 yards and 50 yards at the same time. and if your scope is set for the proper parallax setting you should see a round at the target not many yards away, I really don't care what a spotter sees I care what my scope is set parallax free. please tell us unimformed shooters what a spoter has to do with parallax setting on anyones rifle, that is stupid. and for long range shooting maximum parallax error can cause a round to be off by inches and not thousandths of an inch.
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Well, I have seen many of my bullets fly to the target. I usually pick them up before they hit their zenith, and I can follow them to the target if the lighting is right. And I assure you, i have a clue how to set my scope up. It really comes down to the lighting as far as I have seen. I have also seen bullets form the "C" shape off the left side of the vertical hair, when i pick them up there slightly off center of the hair they continue moving left and them come back right to point of aim. It truly is something to see time and time again.
Roger
Roger
Bill Wynne
Active member
Now here is the deal
I believe that James has it right even if he uses great big terms. "The lateral deviation of trajectory from the plane of departure caused by the rotation of a projectile or spin drift." Now those are nice big words and I like their sound.
Here is how I have it figured. It is a given that your rifle is zeroed in at the target, say 50 yards. When you shoot the bullet thing at the target it starts out below your line of sight because your scope is mounted above the hole in the barrel. It rises and at some point (25 yards more or less) the bullet will be in line with the crosshairs in the scope. This could be called the first zero.
Well, the bullet continues to appear to rise until it appears to start to fall and at the target it will once again appear to cross the center of the crosshairs in the scope. This would be the second zero.
That up and down thing will count for the bullet to appear to rise and fall.
Now the tricky part is the perceived left to right motion and this is where James' big words come in. I will just call it spin drift and let it go.
Anyway that gives us that sideways "C" thing effect. You have to understand my thinking here, all of this is happing together or at the same time and that is why you get the rounded C on it's side effect otherwise we would call it the croquet widget effect.
There now, that's my final story and I am sticking to it.
Concho Bill
I believe that James has it right even if he uses great big terms. "The lateral deviation of trajectory from the plane of departure caused by the rotation of a projectile or spin drift." Now those are nice big words and I like their sound.
Here is how I have it figured. It is a given that your rifle is zeroed in at the target, say 50 yards. When you shoot the bullet thing at the target it starts out below your line of sight because your scope is mounted above the hole in the barrel. It rises and at some point (25 yards more or less) the bullet will be in line with the crosshairs in the scope. This could be called the first zero.
Well, the bullet continues to appear to rise until it appears to start to fall and at the target it will once again appear to cross the center of the crosshairs in the scope. This would be the second zero.
That up and down thing will count for the bullet to appear to rise and fall.
Now the tricky part is the perceived left to right motion and this is where James' big words come in. I will just call it spin drift and let it go.
Anyway that gives us that sideways "C" thing effect. You have to understand my thinking here, all of this is happing together or at the same time and that is why you get the rounded C on it's side effect otherwise we would call it the croquet widget effect.
There now, that's my final story and I am sticking to it.
Concho Bill
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MKnarr
Guest
Gee, I didn't know that. I thought if you set a scope to infinity, it would be adjusted for all distances.
Martin, it is obvious that you have a limited understanding of what other people know and don't know. Do you really believe that you are the only person that knowsd how to tune a tuner or how to adjust for parallax. And I guess you know that Highpower is not shot with a scope but there is usually a spotter that looks through a spotting scope. Oh that's right, a spotting scope is not a rifle scope and can't be adjusted for parallax even though you can see bullet travel through it.
I'm really sorry I entered this discussion, you obviously know better than anyone else here. After all you did hit the ground running.
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martin hammond
Guest
Roger, the parallax may be off only mm but the reason for this is parallax is set in front of the target and that is why the round appears to come in from the left. vice versa if parallax is too far and the target is shot and missed the round will appear to come from the right side of the scope. the reason a shooter only ever notices this is firing a fouling shot past the 50 yard target and when done the shot will always, if the parallax is set too far will come in from the right. and the reason is parallax is set beyond or back of the target.
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martin hammond
Guest
mknarr maybe that's why your best scores are 230's and yes I did hit the ground running, shot my first competion in august have shot 17 targets and been paid for 9 of them so I must be doing something right with less expensive rifles and equipment. and mknarr by the way with not one lot of ammo that was tested. period, bought and shot in competion without ever being shot in advance sooooo someone is doing something right and it's not you.
Martin, if I may ask, exactly what do you mean you "hit the ground running"? I know you shot two 250's or something, but most everything else has been unimpressive.
I recall, I think in 1997 when an unknown shooter came into the Indiana State BR-50 tournament and beat some of the best shooters in the country. You could say he "hit the ground running."
Do you know who that shooter is? Neither do I because he was never able to repeat his performance and finally faded away. Statistically, you have no accomplishments. But, one never knows, next year you may be the man to listen to, though I doubt it. I suspect your fifteen minutes dwindles quickly and you're grasping at straws for another five.
I recall, I think in 1997 when an unknown shooter came into the Indiana State BR-50 tournament and beat some of the best shooters in the country. You could say he "hit the ground running."
Do you know who that shooter is? Neither do I because he was never able to repeat his performance and finally faded away. Statistically, you have no accomplishments. But, one never knows, next year you may be the man to listen to, though I doubt it. I suspect your fifteen minutes dwindles quickly and you're grasping at straws for another five.
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Old Gunner
Guest
You are confusing Gyro-scopic effect with Coriolis effect
If I remember correctly the supposed curve is a matter of gyro-scopic effect decreasing while sight offset remains the same, at some point the offset is perfect but beyond that point it is excessive giving the appearance that the bullet has curved back and beyond the centerline to the opposite direction.
Since the spin on the bullet slows the offset can't remain perfect at all ranges, so the bullet will be away from the centerline most of its time of flight when firing at longer ranges.
Offset was achieved by tilting the ladder sight or milling it to shift the rear sight blade to one side as it was set for longer ranges.
The British Lee Enfield had the added problem of action body flex so they set the front sight far to the left to compensate for body flex plus bullet drill of the left hand twist rifling.
I've often wondered why they didn't go to a right hand twist to counteract the lefthand throw from body flexing.
Gee, I didn't know that. I thought if you set a scope to infinity, it would be adjusted for all distances.
Martin, it is obvious that you have a limited understanding of what other people know and don't know. Do you really believe that you are the only person that knowsd how to tune a tuner or how to adjust for parallax. And I guess you know that Highpower is not shot with a scope but there is usually a spotter that looks through a spotting scope. Oh that's right, a spotting scope is not a rifle scope and can't be adjusted for parallax even though you can see bullet travel through it.
I'm really sorry I entered this discussion, you obviously know better than anyone else here. After all you did hit the ground running.
See, know you know how I became such a cranky bastard. Hang in there buddy, it's kind of like playing catch with the kid that takes the little bus to school. You gotta be patient.
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martin hammond
Guest
for anyone doubting parallax setting and error on an x ring run this test. set a target, set the ao at 35 yards shoot one row, set ao to 40 yards shoot one row, set ao at 45 yards and shoot one row, set ao at 50 yards and shoot one row. now go to the sighters and set the ao untill you can see the round right at the target then with the ao set there go shoot the last row. only one of my scopes is set right at 50 yards some are off by 5 yards. after that test turn the ao to 100 yards and shoot to the right of the target board but aiming as the board is there, the round will appear in the lower right quadrant of the scope. this is so simple it's rediculous, the round that is seen before the target as the focus is before and that's why it's from the left. there is no way a .22 round as some would have you think is 20" or so to the left of the reticle. that is beyond stupid. on the overshot and right of the target it is in the right low quadrant because the focus is past the 50 yard target. you only see a round before or after a target because that's where the focus is set. maybe everyone cannot own a $6500 custom .22 but there is no excuse for taking care of detail no matter how minor.
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retiredff
Guest
New here and have been following this thread.
I remember when I was in the military at Fort polk LA, we had a night fire w/M16's and TRACERS every 5th round that we loaded. We had various other firearms shooting at the same time. I vividly remember shooting my 16 and seeing what appeared to be the bullet travel in a right hand corkscrew flight path that appeared to rise at one point then fall as it reached the top of the arc in the corkscrew flight path. I don't know if this happened with the .308, m60's or the 50 cal, but the M16 sure did. I am not a physics major by any stretch, but if a round has a right hand spin to it, would it not seem possible the rotation could cause a right hand corkscrew type of flight?
Tony
I remember when I was in the military at Fort polk LA, we had a night fire w/M16's and TRACERS every 5th round that we loaded. We had various other firearms shooting at the same time. I vividly remember shooting my 16 and seeing what appeared to be the bullet travel in a right hand corkscrew flight path that appeared to rise at one point then fall as it reached the top of the arc in the corkscrew flight path. I don't know if this happened with the .308, m60's or the 50 cal, but the M16 sure did. I am not a physics major by any stretch, but if a round has a right hand spin to it, would it not seem possible the rotation could cause a right hand corkscrew type of flight?
Tony
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MIKECAMERON
Guest
Exaclty right,The bullets have a slight curveball effect from the spin and rifling groves in the bullet it is physics.If Mr hammonds were to go out and shoot something that had the tracer rounds you were shooting he could see it as clear as I can see it with my suhl.
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B. Harvey
Guest
If you get a scope perfectly straight, and test it at 100 yards going up say, 30 minutes, and it tracks perfectly straight up, at 1000 yards you WILL have to dial in 1-1.5 moa of left windage. So the curve is there, as it should be.
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martin hammond
Guest
gentlemen, a weaver 36x has a field of view @50 yards left to reticule that is 10" for a shooter to see the round to the left and into the target can only be caused by focus and parallax setting. no round curves 9" unless you are shooting in a 50mph wind. and depending on the scope and how the lens were ground also determines how far to the left the round is first seen. once a round leaves the barrel it drops 32feet a second. even rounds of 160 grain shot to 1000 yards yaw around 12".
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martin hammond
Guest
Brian, here is the problem I think your facing with seeing the round the distance. the ao is set short, moving your head/eye around causes the x ring to float. hence a right handed shooter is off to the right of the reticule. however it is impossible to keep the eye/head in the same position. solution adjust the ao until a shooter sees the round at the target and moving the head/eye about does not cause the x ring to move about. one principle of scopes to keep in mind a scope can only focus at one distance at one time. when you are shooting tracers at 3000fps they are going to curve between 20 feet and 4000 yards. a 40 grain .22 caliber round shot at 50yards cannot be compared to a 50caliber at 1/2 mile. sometimes the reason flags don't move is because the wind doesn't move them and maybe something as simple as adjusting the parallax is the reason a miss was caused. sometimes a miss is right in front of your nose. it's just sexier to chase the updrafts and currents.