S
Superman
Guest
Lee, those that have been doing it for a while make it look easy. I get better every time I chuck one up. Because your friend made it look easy, don't think it is. Tiger Woods made golf look easy on TV.
barrel chamber question
- Thread starter skeetlee
- Start date
Lee, those that have been doing it for a while make it look easy. I get better every time I chuck one up. Because your friend made it look easy, don't think it is. Tiger Woods made golf look easy on TV.
Well, first of all, the "font end" wasn't flapping in the wind . . . or you should run for cover before the power is turned on. If there's 18 or so inches of steel that's supported only at one point, bad things are going to happen when you turn the power on.
Now if it's supported, there are several ways of having "dialed in" the muzzle without seeming to do so.
Now if it's supported, there are several ways of having "dialed in" the muzzle without seeming to do so.
jackie schmidt
New member
Lee. rest assured he was using a spider on the muzzle end, and yes, to the untrained eye, it probably dod look as if it was "flopping in the wind".
I can see something running out as little as .005 if I have a referrence point. It is the product of over 40 years of doing what I do. It would be very easy for even the lay person to notice a barreel running out , say, .020.
From what I gather, this is a very popular method of chambering. I personally know some very good shooters who use the "indicate the first 3-4 inches of the chamber end dead true and don't worry about the rest" method. And, as I indicated before, the one time this is a "problem" is if you happen to get a blank that has one of those crooked sopts right up at one of the points you are indicating, and the only problem that really brings forth is the POI of that barrel will be quite a bit different from the one you just took off.
In the whole scheme of things, that is no big deal...........jackie
I can see something running out as little as .005 if I have a referrence point. It is the product of over 40 years of doing what I do. It would be very easy for even the lay person to notice a barreel running out , say, .020.
From what I gather, this is a very popular method of chambering. I personally know some very good shooters who use the "indicate the first 3-4 inches of the chamber end dead true and don't worry about the rest" method. And, as I indicated before, the one time this is a "problem" is if you happen to get a blank that has one of those crooked sopts right up at one of the points you are indicating, and the only problem that really brings forth is the POI of that barrel will be quite a bit different from the one you just took off.
In the whole scheme of things, that is no big deal...........jackie
I didn't like the way this thread was shaping up, commenting on people and their work when you don't know them doesn't seem to make sense to me, and can damage someones (who doesn't frequent this board) reputation unnecessarily. I for one would like to see everyone posting under their real name, can't hide then.
Since I know Lee I also know who he is talking about and that person DOES have a spider on the outboard end of the spindle. As Lee has stated it was a while ago and he may have missed something, but I know the person we are talking about is very smart and has done chambering by dialing in where the throat would be and the muzzle, plus he has tried Gordy Gritters method............which will win out to be best I don't know.......Kiwi
Since I know Lee I also know who he is talking about and that person DOES have a spider on the outboard end of the spindle. As Lee has stated it was a while ago and he may have missed something, but I know the person we are talking about is very smart and has done chambering by dialing in where the throat would be and the muzzle, plus he has tried Gordy Gritters method............which will win out to be best I don't know.......Kiwi
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jackie schmidt
New member
Ian, I think it has been cleared up now. To the lay person, many of the things that we discuss among Machinist can be a little confusing, that is why we try to explain things in as practical, and simple, terms as possible.........jackie
K
kiwi smith
Guest
I agree with Ian's comments. Anyone who subscribes to PS will know doubt remember the article by TH. I think from the pictures he displayed an extra 4-jaw mounted on the far end of the spindle, and not a spider arrangement. Not what I would do or recommend, but oh well.....
The use of precision ground deltronic pins or whatever, is simply a variation on the Gordy Gritters method of getting the breech end of the barrel to run true over a 3 - 4" length. I like Gordy, and have used an approach similar to his over the last few years to overcome the problem of chambering non-straight bores. It does work very well, with nice and concentric, true throats every time. Yes, there are alot of crooked rifle barrel bores, even from 'name makers' and yes, you can often see it with the trained eye. I believe in indexing off the muzzle runout so that the tip of the barrel points with the bow up. I have found that alot of factory rifles that display this characteristic (by fluke more than anything) often shoot really well.
The main advantage I can see of the long 'grizzly rods' over having a huge selection of precision ground pins, is cost of tooling first, and secondly what if you have to do a rechamber job, or what if your set-up moves halfway through the fitting job, like when you have prebored and are about to chamber? Screwed??
Using an indicator at the muzzle end as well will also speed up the dial-in process, as well as being able to tell you where the high side (or high point of deflection) is.
But to re-iterate what Ian said, guys please be sure about your facts before launching into print about someones methods, as well as commercial sensitivity, etc.
Cheers,
Dean.
The use of precision ground deltronic pins or whatever, is simply a variation on the Gordy Gritters method of getting the breech end of the barrel to run true over a 3 - 4" length. I like Gordy, and have used an approach similar to his over the last few years to overcome the problem of chambering non-straight bores. It does work very well, with nice and concentric, true throats every time. Yes, there are alot of crooked rifle barrel bores, even from 'name makers' and yes, you can often see it with the trained eye. I believe in indexing off the muzzle runout so that the tip of the barrel points with the bow up. I have found that alot of factory rifles that display this characteristic (by fluke more than anything) often shoot really well.
The main advantage I can see of the long 'grizzly rods' over having a huge selection of precision ground pins, is cost of tooling first, and secondly what if you have to do a rechamber job, or what if your set-up moves halfway through the fitting job, like when you have prebored and are about to chamber? Screwed??
Using an indicator at the muzzle end as well will also speed up the dial-in process, as well as being able to tell you where the high side (or high point of deflection) is.
But to re-iterate what Ian said, guys please be sure about your facts before launching into print about someones methods, as well as commercial sensitivity, etc.
Cheers,
Dean.
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
And I for two would like to see posters use their real name. I think it should be required.
The '70's 10-4 Good Buddy CB radio days are in the past!
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Superman
Guest
Hiding? WTH? What would someone be hiding from? You say you know the poster, and you know the person he is talking about. How can anyone be hiding from you?
Us knowing the individual the OP talks about in this thread means nothing and this is a DISCUSSION FORUM, for us to discuss things right?
How many people do you know here? Do you not comment on someone's method if you don't know them? Why would we have to know someone to comment? Do you know Gordy Gritters personally? How many ppl here do? An awful lot of them keep throwing his name around.
What REALLY needs to happen is when ppl don't know what they are talking about, they need to STFU. The only one here doing any damage to the person in question is the OP and since you KNOW him, you might want to call him or PM him here on the boards and tell him he shouldn't be commenting when he doesn't know what he is talking about, rather he knows the person he is commenting about or not. No one here did any damage to the guy except Lee, and he claims to know the man.
So what really was your point? BTW, my real name is in my profile, and my business name is on every post. Nothing hidden about my identity. How do I know you're really Ian Owen?
V
Vibe
Guest
Not really Jerry. There's still a reason not to spread too much personal information on the web, just like it was a good idea to alias a CB handle.
Besides, what have I ever done that you would want me gone? I've been on here as long as you have. Or close to it, at least since '97 I think.
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To be precise, when I went to your user profile, I found no name other than "Freedom Gunworks."
While I generally agree with what you posted, I don't agree with the tone. Maybe because I'm not a superman? I make mistakes every day -- little ones, like lighting up another cigarette, and bigger ones.
Charles Ellertson
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Where did I say anything about you leaving. 'ell they can get your name off your mailbox and that is where your house is!!
If a person has anything to say, stand behind it!!
S
Superman
Guest
Buy you ARE a super moderator! The information is in my profile Sir. Did you look around any? If you were to click on the "About Me" tab, where such information should generally be found, you would have found mine. Maybe this link will help: http://benchrest.com/member.php?5579-Superman
My apologies about the tone you might have interpreted, there was no disrespect intended. It's hard to "hear" what a person is saying when you read text, as it has no inflection.
Ah! You're right. I found it. My error.
I'll have to fess up that I've been "on" BR Central since it was a small list of BR shooters and 'smiths. No website or anything. Over the years Wilbur has kept things up to date & there have been any number of changes. I don't always know where things get moved to. The "super moderator" bit was always tongue in cheek. When first mooted, our primary role was to delete spam & try to control the occasional flames that seem to pop up on all internet sites.
I'll have to fess up that I've been "on" BR Central since it was a small list of BR shooters and 'smiths. No website or anything. Over the years Wilbur has kept things up to date & there have been any number of changes. I don't always know where things get moved to. The "super moderator" bit was always tongue in cheek. When first mooted, our primary role was to delete spam & try to control the occasional flames that seem to pop up on all internet sites.
S
Superman
Guest
It was "tongue in cheek" in my commenting as well. You guys have a job to do and typically do it without favoritism or prejudice. If the forum allowed "signature lines", my name would be in it. This was one of the first online forums I joined, every other forum since then uses the phonetic spelling of my last name or my business name IE kgunz11 (Keigans) or FreedomGunworks.
T
therifler
Guest
guys, i think we have determined that there was a spider chuck used in the operation . lee you must be careful how you state things . the gentlemen in question is a very good gunsmith and does well in competiton . lee you thought you learned alot watching him wait till you start doing them yourself . that is when the real education begins . Fellas we don't want this to spill out into the parking lot . Mike Burns
Butch Lambert
Active member
Lee, you may have not seen every thing your smith was doing, but I think you meant no malice to him. super person has not mentioned his chambering methods, so we can't throw rocks at him yet. Jackie, Ian, kiwismith, mike, and Jerry I do know you guys and respect your opinions. Do I always agree with them, no but you still do good work.
Basically this thread mirrors many that are already on the forum.
Butch
Basically this thread mirrors many that are already on the forum.
Butch
Superman, I'd say a few on here who know me will confirm I'm me.......While I know quite a few on here personally I never said I knew Gordy Gritters personally, but I know the person that Lee was talking about does. As for your other questions go and check my posts and you will find the answers.
I agree with Charles E about your tone......others on here can make their point and disagree with others and come across better than you do.......no disrespect intended.........Ian Owen
S
Superman
Guest
Ian, no disrespect intended, simply asking questions. Hard to do some times in text with the lack of inflection. And I don't doubt you are who you say you are. If I could change my user name on here I would. Haven't figured that one out yet.
Butch, grab that bag of rocks... I have not found a method that works better for me than the Gordy Gritters method. I chamber using a tight fitting bushing and I use the Grizzly rods. I'll often remove the rods completely and reinsert them to insure I have the bbl dialed in correctly. I also check my work as I go to make sure the bbl isn't moving, that I'm not getting chatter (which you can usually feel when it starts), and that my reamer is running true with the bore as I'm making my finish cuts. I also index my barrels at 12:00 to the action. When I find a Remington action threads to be out of true I'll cut the tops off and single point thread them oversized. I have recoil lugs made to my specs from PT&G for this purpose. I also true the lugs, bolt face, and bolt nose. I go slow with everything, checking thrice and cutting once. Being careful hasn't let me down yet.
I'm a pistolsmith building high end 1911/2011 handguns, mostly for competitive shooters, and some self defense guns. Tight tolerances are a part of what I do and I consider a critical component of my pistol builds. Here's a photobucket album with some of my work: http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a375/kgunz11/FGW Pistol Builds/
My passion is long range shooting and I've long wanted to be able to build my own rifles. I own a retail gunstore where we don't do general sporting goods or hunting stuff, we're all guns, cleaning supplies, shooting oriented gear, and reloading components (HazMat certified). Admittedly I'm trying to get out of the reloading components, but I wont get into that. I have Type 01, Type 06, and Type 07 FFL's. It's a 1 man shop and I've been busting my tail since 08/2008 to make it all happen. My name is Bobby Keigans, I'm 36 years old, and I live in Camilla, GA. I've shot 22BR with Gary Mitchell, Stump, the Collins Bros and that crew, I shoot F-TR, and I live close to John Whidden so I've had the pleasurable opportunity to shoot along side him on his personal range. I'm just a good ole hard workin' red blooded country boy from South Georgia, loving life.
This forum needs an "introduction" thread, that way I wouldn't have to contaminate this thread with all my personal BS, but thanks for reading!
Butch, grab that bag of rocks... I have not found a method that works better for me than the Gordy Gritters method. I chamber using a tight fitting bushing and I use the Grizzly rods. I'll often remove the rods completely and reinsert them to insure I have the bbl dialed in correctly. I also check my work as I go to make sure the bbl isn't moving, that I'm not getting chatter (which you can usually feel when it starts), and that my reamer is running true with the bore as I'm making my finish cuts. I also index my barrels at 12:00 to the action. When I find a Remington action threads to be out of true I'll cut the tops off and single point thread them oversized. I have recoil lugs made to my specs from PT&G for this purpose. I also true the lugs, bolt face, and bolt nose. I go slow with everything, checking thrice and cutting once. Being careful hasn't let me down yet.
I'm a pistolsmith building high end 1911/2011 handguns, mostly for competitive shooters, and some self defense guns. Tight tolerances are a part of what I do and I consider a critical component of my pistol builds. Here's a photobucket album with some of my work: http://s15.photobucket.com/albums/a375/kgunz11/FGW Pistol Builds/
My passion is long range shooting and I've long wanted to be able to build my own rifles. I own a retail gunstore where we don't do general sporting goods or hunting stuff, we're all guns, cleaning supplies, shooting oriented gear, and reloading components (HazMat certified). Admittedly I'm trying to get out of the reloading components, but I wont get into that. I have Type 01, Type 06, and Type 07 FFL's. It's a 1 man shop and I've been busting my tail since 08/2008 to make it all happen. My name is Bobby Keigans, I'm 36 years old, and I live in Camilla, GA. I've shot 22BR with Gary Mitchell, Stump, the Collins Bros and that crew, I shoot F-TR, and I live close to John Whidden so I've had the pleasurable opportunity to shoot along side him on his personal range. I'm just a good ole hard workin' red blooded country boy from South Georgia, loving life.
This forum needs an "introduction" thread, that way I wouldn't have to contaminate this thread with all my personal BS, but thanks for reading!