Bob Brushingham
Member
Has anyone tried these yet? I see they come in 68 gr. FB at Powder Valley for 19+ dollars
Brush
Brush
Barnes Match Bullets
- Thread starter Bob Brushingham
- Start date
Andy Cross
New member
Only fireforming
I have tried them out because they were cheap and I only wanted something to fire form some new brass with. Didn't see much difference with the groups when compared with some sierra projectiles I used to fire form the heavy brass with.
Andy
I have tried them out because they were cheap and I only wanted something to fire form some new brass with. Didn't see much difference with the groups when compared with some sierra projectiles I used to fire form the heavy brass with.
Andy
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Bob, remember, generally, that commercial "match" bullets are not in the same class as custom benchrest bullets.
Hunter
Chasin' the Sunset
In your opinion, do Berger's qualify as "commercial" or "custom"?
David Halblom
Flying Fish Fundamentals
some yes, some no. Will they play on the same level as Bart's or Meyer's or Brunos in a full out, competitive BR Rifle? Most likely not. Will they make your semi-custom, first attempt at a "BR" rifle shoot better, maybe.
Hunter
Chasin' the Sunset
I shoot "factory class" -- is it likely that I'd notice a difference between "commercial" and "custom" bullets? BTW, several of the other factory-class shooters use Berger's; I use less expensive bullets and am usually out-of-the-money (but, I don't know that's because of the bullets).
Jerry Dailey
Southron
I tried some
Seems like I just gotta try every thing that comes along. The first thing that I noticed was that the base to ojive measurement varried .004. That doesn't happen with custom bullets. They may work better in your rifle than mine. I only shot 3 groups before giving up. 200 yd groups were in the 7's with my normal loads while the bullets that I shoot at matches, grouped in 3's and 4's
Seems like I just gotta try every thing that comes along. The first thing that I noticed was that the base to ojive measurement varried .004. That doesn't happen with custom bullets. They may work better in your rifle than mine. I only shot 3 groups before giving up. 200 yd groups were in the 7's with my normal loads while the bullets that I shoot at matches, grouped in 3's and 4's
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Of the short range Berger bullets (22 and 6mm in 825 and shorter jackets) they will generally shoot with most other customs. Walt Berger shot his way into the Benchrest Hall of Fame with them.
In 600 yard benchrest a great amount of the winning is done with Bergers.
Hunter
Chasin' the Sunset
Not intending to be smart-aleck here, but why do you (or anyone else) think Berger makes a better bullet than Hornady/Nosler/Sierra? I assume they all are mass-produced -- with top-notch equipment and components.
ummm, because these guys actually SHOOT 'em??? And test 'em??? And measure 'em??? And modify 'em??? And personally know the mfgrs??? And the equipment??? And the jacket suppliers???
Your second sentence clearly states your position on the matter.
I've got at least 100 different bullets on my shelves, just from the makers in your post, and the only thing I can "assume" from your post is that you haven't an accurate platform with which to test bullets or you wouldn't step out with your assumptions. Measuring them, spinning them up in a dynamic balancer, Juenkeing them or shooting them are all easy ways to begin discerning differences.
al
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Mass production does have some to do with overall quality. Some of these bullet makers do strive for the mass market since they mainly make hunting bullets.
Several times I have visited Hornady in Grand Island, NE and Sierra in Sedalia, MO. Both have mass production equipment that consists of Stromberg Carlson presses that have 12 dies on each press. These presses of 12 individual dies produce bullets that all go in the same box. Sierras equipment is much newer but Hornady has a workforce that takes great pride in their work. Of these two Sierra does have the best technical support department. I think just from what I have written should answer your concerns.
Yes, all the above bullet makers make great bullets but their mission and customer bases are different.
I have visited Swift Bullet in Quinter, KS. I have shot Pheasants within yards of their building. They have single die presses and make great bullets but do not make match/benchrest bullets that I know of.
Berger Bullets was started as a benchrest bullet maker. They had a quality dip for a while when Walt sold out. A few years ago Walt went back with his grandson Eric and took things back over and brought quality back to benchrests needs. As does Swift, Berger uses single die presses and a small dedicated work force.
B
Bulletman
Guest
Sierra does not utilize multi-die presses, Sierra does not mix bullets from different presses/dies into the same box.
Hunter
Chasin' the Sunset
Bulletman, based on one of the above posts, I thought I understood the difference between "commercial" and "custom" bullets; however, your insight puts me back at not understanding. Your take on that would be interesting.
Fergus Bailey
New member
I am not arguing this statement, but interested to know; has this been the case forever or a change more recently? I have not bought a sierra bullet for some 5-8 years, but when I was shooting a lot of long range BR, I got the best results by ogive sorting bullets (base to ogive). All the Sierra (and other commercial bullet makers) boxes that I ogive sorted had around 3 distinct groups that were +/- a couple of thou, plus a few bullets that were completely random in that they did not come nearly close to any other bullet in the box. The only explanation I could think of was bullets from different dies in the same box.
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Fergus, you bring up a couple of points. It has been about 5-6 years since I visited Sierra and toured their plant in Sedalia.I have been there 3 times since they moved from California. On my last visit I do remember one pointing machine that had just one die on its platen. It was one that added the green plastic tips.
B
Bulletman
Guest
Dear Shooters,
I usually do not weigh in on forums much do to time constraints but I felt compelled to last evening. I do work at Sierra Bullets, and know for fact that we do not utilize multi-die presses, (with the exception of one press that can run two bullets per stroke, this press does not run MK bullets however). A common theory is that we mix bullets from different dies within a lot, this does not occur either, we keep track of every lot of bullets per die and do not mix said lots.
In regards to changes in the bullet production department, we have upgraded our presses and are continuing said upgrades as part of our continued improvement of making the best product we can. However we have not changed the presses in regards to style (12 die to single die as an example), we have always run single-die presses with the exception noted above. Mr. Sharret I am not familiar with the press name you mentioned in your earlier post but that is not the maker of our presses nor have we changed press makers since Sierra moved from California to Missouri in 1990.
I usually do not weigh in on forums much do to time constraints but I felt compelled to last evening. I do work at Sierra Bullets, and know for fact that we do not utilize multi-die presses, (with the exception of one press that can run two bullets per stroke, this press does not run MK bullets however). A common theory is that we mix bullets from different dies within a lot, this does not occur either, we keep track of every lot of bullets per die and do not mix said lots.
In regards to changes in the bullet production department, we have upgraded our presses and are continuing said upgrades as part of our continued improvement of making the best product we can. However we have not changed the presses in regards to style (12 die to single die as an example), we have always run single-die presses with the exception noted above. Mr. Sharret I am not familiar with the press name you mentioned in your earlier post but that is not the maker of our presses nor have we changed press makers since Sierra moved from California to Missouri in 1990.
Eric Stecker
New member
Defining a bullet maker as custom or factory has been a confusing issue that I've had to deal with personally. For what they are worth I'd like to relay my thoughts on the subject. "Custom" bullet makers are typically regarded as bullet makers who use their arm to provide the force that makes the bullet. This gives them a direct feeling of the bullet being formed allowing them to toss out bullets that don't feel right for whatever reason. "Factory" bullet makers are typically regarded as using any other method of providing the force to make a bullet other than one's own arm. The reason these companies are typically regarded as factory is because the "machine" does not typically have the ability to feel the difference in the forming of each bullet (thereby losing the "custom" feel of forming each bullet with the maker's arm).
This however does not clarify which companies are actually "custom" or "factory" by this definition since several bullet makers who are regarded as custom operations use hydraulic rams to eliminate the strain on their arms. While at the same time, others regarded as factory bullet makers (like Berger) use mechanisms like pressure sensors, linear transducers and positive stops to determine and measure the force used and distance traveled for each bullet. In our case, our machines use this data to cull out bullets that do not match the pressure and distance limits we establish.
Frankly, none of these systems (custom or factory, arm or machine) works perfectly every time. So at the end of the day the best way to decide which company is a custom bullet maker or a factory bullet maker is with your rifle. I suggest that before you use your rifle to decide which bullet company is custom and which is factory you first might consider why the custom or factory distinction matters at all. In my personal opinion, brands should be designated by each shooter as "shoots good" or "doesn't work like I want them to in my gun". These designations take longer to say but they are far more genuinely meaningful to shooters than "custom" and "factory".
Regards,
Eric
This however does not clarify which companies are actually "custom" or "factory" by this definition since several bullet makers who are regarded as custom operations use hydraulic rams to eliminate the strain on their arms. While at the same time, others regarded as factory bullet makers (like Berger) use mechanisms like pressure sensors, linear transducers and positive stops to determine and measure the force used and distance traveled for each bullet. In our case, our machines use this data to cull out bullets that do not match the pressure and distance limits we establish.
Frankly, none of these systems (custom or factory, arm or machine) works perfectly every time. So at the end of the day the best way to decide which company is a custom bullet maker or a factory bullet maker is with your rifle. I suggest that before you use your rifle to decide which bullet company is custom and which is factory you first might consider why the custom or factory distinction matters at all. In my personal opinion, brands should be designated by each shooter as "shoots good" or "doesn't work like I want them to in my gun". These designations take longer to say but they are far more genuinely meaningful to shooters than "custom" and "factory".
Regards,
Eric
M
mike in co
Guest
i once had a box of sierra bullets that were definitly two seperate lots.....the box was marked something like 1990 for a date code. when i called sierra, now out in mo, they said they no longer mixed bullets from two different runs, and i should feel comfortable with thier current bullets.
i have met mr and mrs, both seem like nice people......great bullets for the money( mrs runs starline brass).
i have met and talked to walt, and i still shoot thier bullets.
i tend to believe there is a difference between a good, a great and a br bullet.................sierra makes some good bullets and some great bullets. berger makes some great and some br quality bullets.
lot of companies market "match" bullets, seldom do they come close to a br match bullet.
remember a high power match bullet only has to make 2 moa for a 10 and one moa for an x.........match does not mean br match...
mike in co
i have met mr and mrs, both seem like nice people......great bullets for the money( mrs runs starline brass).
i have met and talked to walt, and i still shoot thier bullets.
i tend to believe there is a difference between a good, a great and a br bullet.................sierra makes some good bullets and some great bullets. berger makes some great and some br quality bullets.
lot of companies market "match" bullets, seldom do they come close to a br match bullet.
remember a high power match bullet only has to make 2 moa for a 10 and one moa for an x.........match does not mean br match...
mike in co