BANG... oops you're dead

right to carry

When I was a kid the Mo. conservation dept made it a rule you had to have a hunters safety course before you could buy a hunting liscense , however you spell it, had to go to a consealed carry course to carry. Now anybody can pack without a card. They say shootings have gone up but that's criminals ,not legal gun owners. Ive been jumpin through their hoops all my life. We don't need any more. Glad I don't live in Calif. Doug
 
Tim Oltersdorf said:
Thank you all for your replies to my post. They were interesting, well thought out and very informative. There seems to be a general consensus that fear of bureaucrats dictating who is qualified to own a gun would lead to infringement of our second amendment rights. I would suggest that any safety program be run by the NRA. They have a good training program in place and we all know how they stand on the second amendment. I further suggest that the safety programs be voluntary and offered by gun shops and other firearm sellers. A fee could be added to gun purchases to cover the cost.
A factor that I have not considered was the politeness of people when offered advice on safe gun handling. As chief safety officer of the now defunct Fort Worth Rifle and Pistol Club I did encounter some hostility but not much. A big factor was how you approach people. An aggressive, bellicose manner was counter productive.
An article in the WSJ today stated that 40% of gun purchases were by first time buyers, that gun sales are through the roof and that "authorities" are concerned that purchasers do not know how to safely use these firearms. This mirrors my concern. I again welcome any responses to my post and to my suggestion of using the NRA. Tim
Click to expand...

Tim, with all due respect, when you mention the letters NRA to 50+ percent of the Nation’s population, they look at you like you just left your weekly meeting of Murder Incorporated.

We can thank our Main Stream Media, Liberal/Progressive Demagogues, and in a way our own selves for this.

It is where we are at in 2020 America. We have an entire generation that DOES NOT SHARE OUR VALUES. My own daughter, who I paid to get educated, thinks Joe Biden, Nancy Peloci, AOC, and the rest of that bunch are the future of our Country and SHARE HER VALUES, not mine.
 
You say "authorities" and just who might that be Tim the same folks who are trying to take our rights away? And why stop at firearms how about BBQ's that use propane containers can they not also get people hurt. Guns sales are again at an all time because law enforcement can no longer be of any help. Just because the sales have gone up and rightfully so it surely doesn't mean that all of these folks are unsafe blooming idiots by any means. There are 393 million firearm owners in the United States so what statistics are you actually using to base their unsafe handling on? In 2019 there were about 1% that were preventable/accidental would you not say that is actually extremely low. And all though guns sales have gone up accidental incidents have actually been going down. Preventable or accidental gun-related deaths decreased for the second consecutive year. From 1999 to 2018, preventable gun-related deaths have decreased 44%, from 824 to 458 deaths. Not sure what the term preventable might include but there is nothing stated that pertains directly to only accidents.
 
My first response is leave it alone. If it isn't broke don't fix it. CDC says 39,000+ deaths by firearms in 2017. 60% were suicides, 37% were murders, and 3% "other" includes accidental shootings. I spend lots of time at the shooting range, sometimes all day long loading and shooting. If you do that for a while you will question whether anyone should be allowed to have a firearm and why some fathers were allowed to have children. Having said that, I am a strong believer in the 2nd Amendment and that to touch it in any way is to destroy it. We, as a society, have become obsessed with absolutes like safety. Most of those people at the range will learn and improve and that's part of the process. Regardless of their appearance of "danger to society", the numbers show they are relatively harmless. To tamper with their rights is to tamper with my rights. I do not want to be in a position where some bureaucrat or even fellow shooter has to approve what I want to do and/or what I want to buy. The last two months have broken all previous records for gun sales, but I don't see the fields and meadows riddled with dead bodies. I think we, as the "firearms industry" are doing fine and don't need any tinkering.

Reed
 
yell at me all you want,
but here are some FACTS ABOUT THE NRA.

they did not want/did not support the heller case until after it was well on to a win.

had their head in the sand(someones wallet) when OSHA tried to kill the sales and movement of primers with a CLERICAL UPDATE of their rules. again on the band wagon late in the game.

their fund raising companies take up to 80% of collected money.

they are part of the current POLITICAL PROCESS which is part of the problem.
my opinion is our current president got elected because HE WAS NOT A POLITICIAN.
 
Great responses

Thanks again for your responses. Let me clarify some of my reasoning. I chose the NRA as the body to run a safety program because I could not think of another organization that would be acceptable to most shooters. I suspect that the shooters you see on the range are in the minority of gun purchasers. A lot of new gun purchasers, I think, load the firearm put it in a purse, car, nightstand etc. and forget it. After your responses I have changed my thinking on requiring new gun purchasers to attend a safety course. I still feel it should be offered and encouraged. I am also OK with doing nothing rather then allowing any government bureaucracy to stick their nose into this. Otherwise you end up with results like those mentioned in France and California. Jackie, I feel your pain. I have two children both of whom turned into left wing Democrats. Tim
 
rsmithsr said:
yell at me all you want,
but here are some FACTS ABOUT THE NRA.

they did not want/did not support the heller case until after it was well on to a win.

had their head in the sand(someones wallet) when OSHA tried to kill the sales and movement of primers with a CLERICAL UPDATE of their rules. again on the band wagon late in the game.

their fund raising companies take up to 80% of collected money.

they are part of the current POLITICAL PROCESS which is part of the problem.
my opinion is our current president got elected because HE WAS NOT A POLITICIAN.
Click to expand...

Yeh, I have been a lifetime member of the NRA for 15 years, and I still get invitations to join.

I get the feeling that I am not even a number to them.
 
At Camp Plymouth, a boy scout camp in Vermont, we had a good shooting program supervised by William Tecumseh "T" Sherman. He was a great old guy who had lost most of his stomach to ulcers. It was a good learning experience and the one thing about camp that I really liked. At around the same time, I attended an NRA-run indoor program at the National Guard armory in Springfield, VT. That set me on the path to serious target shooting at a much later date. These sorts of programs are hugely beneficial in teaching safety and respect for firearms.

If you don't have some sort of structure you have to take pot luck. If you have a club, and you can't have rules and a way to reform or evict the bad apples, you won't have a club much longer. I don't wish to put myself at risk of a lawsuit by belonging to a club that condones unsafe behavior, or worse yet, being an officer. Finding benches I built all shot up, or finding bullet holes in the clubhouse is more than I can bear.

Libertarians may not like having a range officer around with the authority to evict unsafe shooters and revoke their memberships. Personally, I think it's the only way a club can survive if you have your membership open to the general public.
 
Jackie,

I have been a member since 64 or 65 and got an invitation to renew my life membership..at least that't how I read it. Why would I do that ? They knew I was still around or they wouldn't have asked.

Mort
 
same answer as in any POLITCAL field...
ITS ABOUT THE MONEY PERIOD

dmort said:
Jackie,

I have been a member since 64 or 65 and got an invitation to renew my life membership..at least that't how I read it. Why would I do that ? They knew I was still around or they wouldn't have asked.

Mort
Click to expand...
 
rsmithsr said:
same answer as in any POLITCAL field...
ITS ABOUT THE MONEY PERIOD
Click to expand...



If I understand correctly, NRA uses 80% of the collected money for it's own operating expanses / running costs, leaving only 20% of the money for its existence purpose, aka actions toward the public / politicians and the firearms /industry /owner.

On my side, when a non-profit organisation spends more than 15% of collected money in running costs, we have a public acountability inspection service named "Cours des Comptes" (?? Court of Auditors??) that starts to audit it on a regular basis.

It's audit reports are PUBLIC. Some audit reports come to prosecution.

Anyone can get informed about the money share in between operating expanses and actions toward the public, and so choose who to donate.

Above 15% running costs, the mass media usually relay the info.

That way, the Public can learn "Telethon" is no more a non-profit organisation, and that "Restos du Coeur", despite being something HUGE and National, has always be an extremely skinny organisation since 1985. Restos are 7.8% this year.
 
There are cases of enforcement officers shooting themselves while teaching a class so mandatory firearm safety training is about as useful as drivers ed. How many people wreck their vehicles every year? Thousands and thousands. Yet they all "learned to drive" at some date.

I see more people taking firearm safety classes now than ever before. Many are first time firearm owners and many are women.

If I recall I thought that the NRA was a private membership supported corporation with a few non-profit tax-exempt foundations? They spend a lot of money on a variety of things. Museums, Whittington Center, grants to ranges, education, publications, shooting sports record keeping, etc. Most of us who have taken a firearm safety course of some type, or are instructors, that are certified by the NRA. Would you hire a RSO who was certified by the local YMCA? Or a handgun safety course certified by the garden club?
 
Last edited:
not exactly true
they only SEE 20% OF FUNDS COLLECTED by hired fund raisers.
then your statement may be correct on the remaining funds.
(dues and straight donations)
OliveOil said:
If I understand correctly, NRA uses 80% of the collected money for it's own operating expanses / running costs, leaving only 20% of the money for its existence purpose, aka actions toward the public / politicians and the firearms /industry /owner.

On my side, when a non-profit organisation spends more than 15% of collected money in running costs, we have a public acountability inspection service named "Cours des Comptes" (?? Court of Auditors??) that starts to audit it on a regular basis.

It's audit reports are PUBLIC. Some audit reports come to prosecution.

Anyone can get informed about the money share in between operating expanses and actions toward the public, and so choose who to donate.

Above 15% running costs, the mass media usually relay the info.

That way, the Public can learn "Telethon" is no more a non-profit organisation, and that "Restos du Coeur", despite being something HUGE and National, has always be an extremely skinny organisation since 1985. Restos are 7.8% this year.
Click to expand...
 
the nra has become too politcally correct.
at a benchrest match "bolts out is the rule".
this rule is UNACCEPTABLE to the nra.
think about that all you nra supporters.

their rules would make running a br match nearly impossible.
there are lots of gun orgs that run matches very well for many years WITHOUT interference from the nra.

Downeast said:
There are cases of enforcement officers shooting themselves while teaching a class so mandatory firearm safety training is about as useful as drivers ed. How many people wreck their vehicles every year? Thousands and thousands. Yet they all "learned to drive" at some date.

I see more people taking firearm safety classes now than ever before. Many are first time firearm owners and many are women.

If I recall I thought that the NRA was a private membership supported corporation with a few non-profit tax-exempt foundations? They spend a lot of money on a variety of things. Museums, Whittington Center, grants to ranges, education, publications, shooting sports record keeping, etc. Most of us who have taken a firearm safety course of some type, or are instructors, that are certified by the NRA. Would you hire a RSO who was certified by the local YMCA? Or a handgun safety course certified by the garden club?
Click to expand...
 
Nra

I have heard the same rumors about the NRA: excessive administration fees. I also have never seen this issue addressed in the NRA publications or mailing If the rumors are true then you have a crony leadership using the organization for a cash cow. If the rumors come from the popular press or a competing organization then they should be taken not with a grain but a cup full of salt. What I do know is that the national media and the Democrats hate the NRA. This signifies to me that they are effective in opposing the gun grabbers. Until we have a more effective national organization to protect our second amendment rights then I will support the NRA. Tim
 
Instead of looking at the Negative try looking at the positive side of the NRA. Their facilities, classes and matches at Raton are second to none and so is the game hunting if you get drawn. Just the Coors range alone has 75 shooting benches along with a building that can accommodate all who come. So some of their money is being put to good use. When you have a chance check out their calendar of shooting events.

Jackie thank God all of my children and now my grand children have absolutely no use for the left. They understand what's really going on more so than most of the adults that I and they know.
 
tim,
it is poorly run.
AGAIN...they hire OUTSIDE fund raisers.....the money never makes it INTO the nra...maybe 20%.
not a cash cow for the staff but for the fund raisers.
i support the idea of the nra, but like the dem and rep parties, at this point THEY ARE PART OF THE PROBLEM.
they did not fight the magazine ban but ACCEPTED the IDEA of COMPROMISE because it did not affect their paychecks.
Tim Oltersdorf said:
I have heard the same rumors about the NRA: excessive administration fees. I also have never seen this issue addressed in the NRA publications or mailing If the rumors are true then you have a crony leadership using the organization for a cash cow. If the rumors come from the popular press or a competing organization then they should be taken not with a grain but a cup full of salt. What I do know is that the national media and the Democrats hate the NRA. This signifies to me that they are effective in opposing the gun grabbers. Until we have a more effective national organization to protect our second amendment rights then I will support the NRA. Tim
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top