Are you objective?

Right and Wrong

I think everyone is born with a sense of right and wrong. I also think that the older we get the more blurry the line between them gets. I am in no way schooled in psychology, but it seems to me that when you stand up for what you believe to be right, you tend to categorize everything.
like Abortion or Gay Marriage.

A person likes to see their correct views furthered in the country so you vote for the person that that will push the cause. At this point you have decided for your self that someone is Right and someone is Wrong. and the fighting is on.
 
I would like to recommend a history book for any American to read. It is titled "A History of the American People", by Paul Johnson.

Paul Johnson, a British citizen, is considered one of the foremost historians in the world today and this work just about nails our history and more importantly, why it worked out like it has. If you can take the time to read this 1,000 plus page work, you will not look at history or current affairs in the same light.

I have read it and reread it. It has opened my eyes. It is just full of nuggets and pearls.

Although this is not a high school type text book, it should be read by anyone who endeavors to teach or learn the subject.

Concho Bill
 
Is He?

DO I HAVE THIS STRAIGHT?



HIS FATHER WAS A BLACK AFRICAN MUSLIM FROM KENYA. WE HAVE SEEN PICTURES OF HIS AFRICAN FAMILY.

HIS MOTHER WAS A WHITE AMERICAN ATHEIST FROM KANSAS. WHERE ARE THE PICTURES OF HIS AMERICAN FAMILY?

HIS FATHER DESERTED HIS MOTHER WHEN HE WAS ONLY TWO YEARS OLD AND WENT BACK TO AFRICA BY WAY OF HARVARD UNIVERSITY HOW? WAS HIS FATHER WEALTHY?

HIS MOTHER MARRIED AN INDONESIAN MUSLIM AND THEN MOVED TO JAKARTA WHERE HE WAS ENROLLED IN A MUSLIM SCHOOL.

WHEN HE REACHED HIGH SCHOOL AGE HIS MOTHER SENT HIM TO HAWAII TO BE WITH HIS WHITE GRANDPARENTS AND HE WAS PUT INTO AN EXPENSIVE PRIVATE SCHOOL. HE LATER WENT TO HARVARD UNIVERSITY. HOW? WERE HIS GRANDPARENTS RICH?

HE LIVES IN A $1.4 MILLION HOUSE OBTAINED THROUGH A DEAL WITH A WEALTHY FUNDRAISER. HOW?

HE 'WORKED' AS A CIVIL RIGHTS ACTIVIST IN CHICAGO . HE HAS NEVER HELD A PRODUCTIVE JOB OR RECEIVED A PAY CHECK THAT WAS NOT GOVERNMENT-FUNDED AND/OR TAYPAYER SUPPORTED.

THE PRESIDENCY IS NOT A CIVIL RIGHTS POSITION, NOR IS IT SUBJECT TO AFFIRMATIVE ACTION SET ASIDES; ON-THE-JOB TRAINING WON'T CUT IT.

HE ENTERED POLITICS AT THE STATE LEVEL AND THEN THE NATIONAL LEVEL WHERE HE HAS MINIMAL EXPERIENCE.

HE IS PROUD OF HIS 'AFRICAN HERITAGE' (A FATHER WHO GOT A WHITE GIRL PREGNANT AND DESERTED HER).

WHERE IS THE PRIDE IN HIS 'WHITE HERITAGE'? (A MOTHER WHO FLAUNTED CONVENTION AND DID NOT BELIEVE IN GOD).

SOME MIGHT THINK THERE WAS NOT MUCH TO BE PROUD OF EITHER WAY.

HE BELONGS, AND HAS BELONGED FOR OVER 20 YEARS, TO AN 'AFRO-CENTRIC' CHURCH IN CHICAGO THAT HATES WHITES, HATES JEWS, AND BLAMES AMERICA FOR ALL THE WORLD'S PERCEIVED FAULTS. (INCLUDING CREATING THE AIDs VIRUS IN ORDER TO INFLICT IT ON AFRICANS).

HE REPEATEDLY WHITEWASHES THE PASTOR, HIS CHURCH AND THE MEMBERS WHO CHEERED AFTER HEARING VITRIOLIC TIRADES AGAINST AMERICA

HE COULD NOT CONFRONT HIS PASTOR BUT HE WANTS US TO BELIEVE HE CAN CONFRONT NORTH KOREA AND IRAN?

YEAH RIGHT ! !

DURING HIS VERY BRIEF TIME IN THE UNITED STATES SENATE HE HAS MANAGED TO AMASS THE NUMBER ONE ULTRA LIBERAL VOTING RECORD OUT OF THE ONE HUNDRED MEMBERS.

HE HAS VOTED CONSISTENTLY FOR BIGGER GOVERNMENT AND HIGHER TAXES. HE HAS VOTED FOR BIG ENTITLEMENTS AND LEGISLATION THAT WOULD SEVERELY CURTAIL AMERICA'S ABILITY TO FIGHT TERRORISM AND TO PROTECT OUR BORDERS AND OUR NATIONAL INTERESTS AROUND THE WORLD.

BUT, HE IS A GOOD ORATOR. ISN'T THAT A COMFORT?

YEAH, I THINK I SEE HOW WELL HE COULD UNITE THE COUNTRY.

I THINK THE TRUTH IS THAT HE HOPES NO ONE WILL PUT THE PIECES TOGETHER.

LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, this is your co-pilot. LET ME INTRODUCE YOU TO OUR NEW CHIEF PILOT.HE HAS NEVER FLOWN AN AIRPLANE, IN FACT HE HAS NEVER EVEN SAT IN THE COCKPIT, BUT HE SAYS HE HAS RIDDEN ON PLANES BEFORE. WE ARE SURE HE WILL GUIDE US SAFELY THROUGH THE STORMS WE MAY ENCOUNTER ON THIS FLIGHT.

PEOPLE WHAT ARE YOU THINKING? HAVE YOU NEVER HEARD THE STORY ABOUT THE WOLF HIDING IN SHEEP'S CLOTHING SO HE CAN DESTROY THEM FROM WITH-IN ? THE HAND WRITING IS ON THE WALL, DO YOU NOT HAVE EYES TO SEE IT ?

THINK LONG AND HARD BEFORE YOU VOTE FOR THIS GUY!
 
Tracker
With all you state, isn't it amazing that Obama has such a following. I don't know if there are that many deaf, dumb and blind people in the country or if I'm living in the twilight zone. I can only attribute the following to the effect the media's bias has on the weak in our country. They truly do control the brains of the weak, or is that a contradiction in terms, brains/weak?. Too many sheep following the wolf dressed as a sheep.
God help us!
vinny
Oh, one last thing, McCain is no better! The only difference between him and Obama is the media wants Obama to win.
 
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Well, you can call me prejudiced if you like. I won't be offended. I have this same prejudiced feelings about rattle snakes.:)

Most of what tracker says is fact. (Fact = data that can be proven accurate to all reasonable men.)

All of what Vinny says in his last post I agree with.

I would like to alter D's definition of a fact. (Fact= data that can be proven accurate.) Reasonable men can disagree but the facts will remain.

Concho Bill
 
Vinny and Bill

Vinny thanks for your comments.
That is more or less what I thought.Lucky for my family my wife home schooled our daughter, she's 6 years old now,when she started kindergarten last year she was 1 of 2 that could read in a class of 25.We are lucky in that she likes to learn new things,so we'll keep schooling her while she goes to school.
P.S. I live in California the schools here average.

Bill I will have to get that book from the book store thanks.
Rudy Manuel:D
 
rudedog
Your welcome. It sounds like you and your wife have your heads on straight and are academically conscious. Remain vigilant in your efforts to afford your child the opportunity to hear both sides of all the issues she learns in school. With supporting parents a child's ability to learn is endless. The more children get at home the more they can give in school. Most important get to know the teacher and her/his curriculum.

Bill
You used a term "reasonable men" I've yet to meet any idea-log that is reasonable. For the most part, and this goes for both sides of the political spectrum a lack of compromise is a direct result of ideological politicians who are just that "too unreasonable".
I find a few of the members here are just that, unreasonable. Its those members who have graduated to my "ignore list". You see "Schools out for summer" so I can pick and choose who I decide to engage in discussions with. During school time I dont have much choice, it's my job having to deal with teachers who are polar opposites from me. So when I'm on here, I can choose. Sorry if that offends anyone, but that's just the way it is!
vinny
 
Tracker

I don't know how it is where you live, but here in California when you try to talk to people about the elections or candidates they don't care to talk about it.Their minds are made up,sound familiar,don't bother them with the facts.
Maybe it's our fault for not speaking up,with our opinions to the government and how it's been run for so long, maybe we should have said " I'M MAD AS HELL AND I'M NOT GOING TO TAKE IT ANY MORE".
I feel the same way you do about the elections.

I watched a show about the Belgian Congo a couple of years ago.
I think that they were talking about the Polio vaccine in the 50's,and how when they started to get low on the vaccine we sent them,they were told how make their own.
Apparently when they were making it they made it from a wrong culture.The people making the documentary felt that this is where the Aids virus came from.
The doctors that were still alive, said know to this,but a doctor who had died felt that this was how the Aids virus started
 
Facts about John MCCain

He was born a spoiled military brat.

He was born in Panama, NOT legally a part of America but under military control.

His college grades were below par, and was disruptive in school.

His acceptance in the military academy was possible only through the influence his father and grandfather had.

The college schooling he received was paid for by his parents. He did not work.

Adopted a child from Indonesia, rather than to adopt a homeless and love starved orphan from America.

He had a mother and daughter duo from Mexico working at their home in Az. without green card or other documentation. (illegally). Paid in cash.

He tried his best along with Diane Feinstein to stop the sale of guns at gun shows all over the country.

He pushed through legislation which was made law closing the classified documents pertaining to POWs in Nam. They are now sealed from the public forever.

He told the Latino community there would be no amnesty program. Now he is on the band wagon to make sure amnesty is granted to ALL of the people here illegally.

He has openly admitted to being a war criminal, killing thousands of innocent women and children in Viet Nam.

He openly admitted to confessing his guilt to the Vietnamese.

While our country needs help, he spends a week in Columbia and Mexico, (not going to get votes there).

He has a net worth of more than 40 Million dollars. (where did that come from?). Not his parents.

I'm sure I have missed a great deal, but this is a start.

ALL OF THE ABOVE CAN BE FOUND ON HIS WEBSITE, HIS AUTOBIOGRAPHY,
TAPE FROM 60 MINUTES. ALL IN HIS OWN WORDS. NOTHING FROM WIKIPEDIA.

My point here is to show how ridiculous it is to find fault with the opposing party, rather than talk about the good things your candidate has done.

Now, if what he says in his book and his interview on 60 minutes are untrue,
he's not a very truthful person..... is he.
 
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rudedog said:
I guess anyone can be bias even on facts just throw a spin on it.
Finding people to be objective to facts is quite another, if it does not meet their view.
I guess we could discuss something non-political to talk about, or is it political.
Lets try school books.
I went to school in the 50's and 60's.
I would think that history is history wrong?
School books sure have a different history lesson than when I was in school.
Is that objective or factual ,who decides what to teach our kids.
Is it bias to their thoughts or is it biased to their political views.
I know that you were a teacher once what do you think.
Rudy Manuel:rolleyes:
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I think I was trained to teach U.S. History and Political Science, but switched to Biology because I couldn't stand teaching the sanitized, ethnocentric versions indoctrinated into the public schools. That's what I find so funny when people think the public schools are liberal! Hard to find a more traditional, conservative atmosphere. I guess that's why when a nut pops up it is so noticeable in the educational system.

It would be really good if we could all try to deal with "fact" rather than cheap shots on all issues. We are get to have our own opinions, but not our own facts!
 
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RStiefel

As usual you put out half truths and innuendo to prove your half assed point. I only had to read as far as "The college schooling he received was paid for by his parents. He did not work." and "He has openly admitted to being a war criminal, killing thousands of innocent women and children in Viet Nam." and "He has openly admitted to being a war criminal, killing thousands of innocent women and children in Viet Nam." These statements alone show you are willing to shade the truth. to use statements out of context and innuendo to prove your point. The following is from another post I made to you when you brought up the same misguided point under "Is He" http://www.benchrest.com/forums/showthread.php?p=427596#post427596 maybe you didn't read it then.
Yes McCain was handed his education. In case you don't know in order to have your education handed to you, as you put it, in a military academy you must agree to serve in the armed forces for a period of time, Here is how john McCain got his free ride.
A 1958 graduate of the U.S. Naval Academy, McCain had a 22-year military career as a pilot and officer in the Navy. Five of those years (1967-73) were spent in a Vietnamese prisoner of war camp after he was shot down over Hanoi during the Vietnam War.
The quotes about his admitting war crimes are out of context those words were spoken while he was a prisoner and after he was tortured. Either you didn't bother to get your facts right or you purposely are trying to miss lead people, by making it appear he admitted to war crimes in the 60 min. interview, he did not, he said that during his imprisonment in Viet Nam he had folded under the torture and admitted these things, He went on to say he wished he had been stronger.
Your other points are trivial and at best based on the liberal tactic of class warfare.
Sadly we can't look at Obamas military record as with many liberals has none. We can't judge his accomplishments in the senate as their aren't enough of them, but to be fair would you like to give us a list of his senate victories, bill's he sponsored, or just signed on to?
What legislation has he been responsible for that shaped our country's course in world affairs, what important legislation has he brought up before the floor that effected the American people in a positive way.
 
MY Opinion

I see it everywhere, it seems to me that today people are trying to deprive others of their opinions. My opinion is my personal property, if you do not like it (GO AWAY)
 
MrD
Thank you for that humorous last post, " I think I was trained to teach U.S. History and Political Science, but switched to Biology because I couldn't stand teaching the sanitized, ethnocentric versions indoctrinated into the public schools. That's what I find so funny when people think the public schools are liberal! Hard to find a more traditional, conservative atmosphere. I guess that's why when a nut pops up it is so noticeable in the educational system."
"It would be really good if we could all try to deal with "fact" rather than cheap shots on all issues. We are get to have our own opinions, but not our own facts!"
It's good that you have a sense of humor, It certainly made my day. Sarcasm is a lost art not understood by many, but you did a good job.
I don't know where you teach at but it is possibly the only or at least one of the few school districts that is conservative.
Or are you trying to create your own facts?
 
I'm back

Hi guys, I missed you the last couple of weeks. Mr. Stiefel, I won't go over your posst point by point, as mr. Koginham has done a good job of that. will say that anyone can use facts, documented facts, such as mr. McCain admitting to war crimes, to give a false impression over all. Regardless of what each of the candidates did 30 years ago, only one shows any real inclination to ban guns, raise taxes, weaken the defense of this country, and who has little or no experience, beyond being a neighborhood organizer. While I was in Africa, all the people I was in contact with, are worried that an Obama Presidency will result in Americans unable to come over there and hunt. I believe that I'll just stick with my beliefs and vote McCain. Good to be back, Rusty Carr
 
koginam

It is quite obvious you want nothing less than to have everyone share your pipe dreams. Everyone does not share your twisted views, so get over it. I have NEVER said Obama would be a better leader. I have NEVER said to anyone, don't vote for McCain. You are quite good at copying and repeating the garbage that others drop in places for people like you to compost and use to make their own case against someone. How about for once in your life, you try to show a little integrity, and respect the opinions and freedom of choice everyone else has. You can order a copy of the tape from 60 minutes. You can purchase the book's from your local book store. If they don't have them in stock, they will gladly order them for you. If you choose not to read and listen to FACTS, so be it. Just try and closet the definitions you copy from the WIKIPEDIA smut site. I'm doing my best to remember the correct spelling of your name. Now.... I hope my pronunciation is correct.
 
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I have watched this topic for sometime but I have not posted until now.
Let's look at your list of statements one at a time.

He was born a spoiled military brat.
While you seem to see this as a discracefull thing I see it as coming from a family willing to serve their country with their lives not just their words from a safe place while men like them risk their lives.

He was born in Panama, NOT legally a part of America but under military control.
Again I don't see this as a problem it just means his family was willing to go to a stinking hell hole with disease and filth everywhere to do their duty to the American People

His college grades were below par, and was disruptive in school.
As a flaming liberal I would think you would be more understanding, in today's school system he would be labeled with ADD, or ADHD.

His acceptance in the military academy was possible only through the influence his father and grandfather had.
With the service that they gave to the country I see no problem with them helping him get in, and in case you didn't know many senators recommend their constitutes to the academies each year, many of which could not get in without those recommendations.

The college schooling he received was paid for by his parents. He did not work.
I feel Koginam answered that very well, and after seeing the other post at "is He" I feel you already knew that and yet you continued to bring it up, this is not an honorable thing to do.

Adopted a child from Indonesia, rather than to adopt a homeless and love starved orphan from America.
I don't know how to answer this it seems such a petty thing to be upset about, but I guess we could ask how many homeless and love starved orphan from America has Obama adopted?

He had a mother and daughter duo from Mexico working at their home in Az. without green card or other documentation. (illegally). Paid in cash.
This is one I have a problem with not only did he do it but many politicians are guilty of this, they should have to pay back taxes and be fined.

He tried his best along with Diane Feinstein to stop the sale of guns at gun shows all over the country.
Again I find this one troubling as well, but where does Obama stand on this? He is looking for a lot stronger restrictions on our gun right then McCain is.

He pushed through legislation which was made law closing the classified documents pertaining to POWs in Nam. They are now sealed from the public forever.
I can not remake on this one because I was unable to find any such law, if you could give me more information on this I would look into it, but as it stands now I will have to assume it is BS. based on the other facts you have given.

He told the Latino community there would be no amnesty program. Now he is on the band wagon to make sure amnesty is granted to ALL of the people here illegally.
Again could you give us some sources to look up. and also isn't that the same as what obama is doing?

He has openly admitted to being a war criminal, killing thousands of innocent women and children in Viet Nam.
Again this is pure BS Koginam covered that as well in his earlier post.

He openly admitted to confessing his guilt to the Vietnamese.
Again this is pure BS Koginam covered that as well in his earlier post.

While our country needs help, he spends a week in Columbia and Mexico, (not going to get votes there).
No votes for him their but he is laying a base for his foreign polices, something that Obama will be copying very soon the fact he didn't do it earlier is due to his lack of experience in world affairs.

He has a net worth of more than 40 Million dollars. (where did that come from?). Not his parents.
And this is a sign of what? criminal conduct? Corruption? again i find myself quoting koginam, " best based on the liberal tactic of class warfare."
Let me ask where did Obama get his money not from his family, maybe from hard work and investments, probably the same as McCain.

I'm sure I have missed a great deal, but this is a start.

ALL OF THE ABOVE CAN BE FOUND ON HIS WEBSITE, HIS AUTOBIOGRAPHY,
TAPE FROM 60 MINUTES. ALL IN HIS OWN WORDS. NOTHING FROM WIKIPEDIA.
To bad you didn't do your homework you would have seen that the viet nam quotes were out of context.
You do your cause no good by these tactics and if you are a man of honor you would apologize to the members of this board for the blatant use of innuendo and half truths.

My point here is to show how ridiculous it is to find fault with the opposing party, rather than talk about the good things your candidate has done.
This statement is also something you should apologize for members here are not fooled that easily.

Now, if what he says in his book and his interview on 60 minutes are untrue,
he's not a very truthful person..... is he.
And neither are you acting as a very truthful person, as this post shows, If I am mistaken on any point please let me know.
 
jpcampbell

My thread was nothing more than an answer to the many threads posted against Obama. It serves no purpose to try and force one from their choice of politician. It does however give one a black eye, when one thinks that by finding fault with the opposition, their choice is the only one. Try telling the shooters at the next benchrest match that the caliber you shoot is the only choice and their choice is the wrong choice because you say it is. I believe you would soon find yourself alienated by those groups. Extolling the virtues of your choice is the only logical approach. That approach sure is working in our favor right now in North Korea.
 
Good to have you back Rusty...

Rusty Carr said:
Hi guys, I missed you the last couple of weeks. Mr. Stiefel, I won't go over your posst point by point, as mr. Koginham has done a good job of that. will say that anyone can use facts, documented facts, such as mr. McCain admitting to war crimes, to give a false impression over all. Regardless of what each of the candidates did 30 years ago, only one shows any real inclination to ban guns, raise taxes, weaken the defense of this country, and who has little or no experience, beyond being a neighborhood organizer. While I was in Africa, all the people I was in contact with, are worried that an Obama Presidency will result in Americans unable to come over there and hunt. I believe that I'll just stick with my beliefs and vote McCain. Good to be back, Rusty Carr
Click to expand...



...how was Africa other than the political duscussions??!!!! Any good stories??

I think the thread was insulting but we have had some good posts for JM's defense. Hard to believe any of us has stopped to 'think' about voting for the candidate that is more likely to support gun rights (this is a shooting forum). Can't be objective if we're considering JM??

Taxes: I heard a vote from a tax payer for obama is like a chicken voting for Col. Sanders.

The WAR: Amazing, some of us think we need to get the big bad wolf this time at all costs. Regardless of $$$$ or the time it takes....How could ANYONE believe pulling out now and quiting the war would do way more harm than good to the U.S.?? I want to win this one NOW so my kids don't have to find out what real life 9/11 is like later.

No, I don't want to give obama a chance....sigh. Just a bunch of baby killing, blood for oil, save the rich neocon rednecks:)

How could a conservative vote for the republican candidate against one of the most liberal senators in his short HISTORY?? What a shocker!! Nope, guess I'm just not objective when it comes to the issues that concern me....haven't even thought about them.

pf
 
RStiefel
All I was doing was pointing out your misrepresentation and BS. the same as I have done when people try to say Obama is a muslim or some other fact that is unsubstituted, yes as it stands I will vote for McCain with his warts and all, but your facts against him don't stand up for the most part.

"I have NEVER said Obama would be a better leader. I have NEVER said to anyone, don't vote for McCain."
Then why all the negative posts about McCain, You have not listed a single post for McCain or a single negative about Obama that I have seen.

"You are quite good at copying and repeating the garbage that others drop in places for people like you to compost and use to make their own case against someone."
I have mainly copied your statements to show where they are misleading.

"How about for once in your life, you try to show a little integrity, and respect the opinions and freedom of choice everyone else has"
I not only respect others opinions and freedoms I have served my country and bled for it, lost friends and family who fought for it, that is why it means so much to me that the facts be correct.

"I'm doing my best to remember the correct spelling of your name. Now.... I hope my pronunciation is correct."
The spelling is correct, but when you pronounce the name their is no f-----ng in front of it.
FACT
http://rosemeadherald.vox.com/libra...-stand-john-mccains-torture.html?_c=feed-atom sorry this isn't the cbc web site but the quote is correct.

I don't care who you vote for. But don't act like you haven't made up your mind already.
McCain on the 60 min. show was talking about the admission he had been forced to make while in captivity, he was not stating he thought he was a war criminal, or had killed innocents.

I hope you will follow the following advise it comes from a highly educated man

"Everything I quoted is FACT.
Look it up. Read it. Watch the interview. Read the book. His admission is in writing, his own words on national TV.(60 minutes)."
I know you probably won't follow the advise but if you do and you find I'm wrong please state the source.
 
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