ARA Agg/A-Line...

R

RvA

Roger von Ahrens
Hello All,

Well I've been thinking about something here for a while now and I'd like to get the opinion of rest of the ARA shooters.

I've heard of people make comments about how a bad match or two will kill there agg for the year. And I think I have figured out a way to fix that. I'd like to make a suggested rule change to the ARA to where we would only use the top 40 cards to calculate the Agg/A-line. I think that doing something like that would really help fix a few problems that I have heard folks talk about.

What do you think?

Best,

Roger
 
I would not be in favor of that for the A line but for the Stat line, it would be perfect...
 
The A line is to encourage travel and support for all the clubs. If you did that for the A line, you would have no incentive to go to small matches. You would just chase the large tourneys. For the Stat line, it would increase the incentive to shoot all the matches you could.
 
I think something like that was discussed last year. The conclusion, I think, was that it had to brought to ARA by a match director then be voted on as a rule change. I think it would be a good thing. Somebody needs to officially submit it to ARA headquarters.
 
Well Beau, as I'm the the ARA match director for Factoryville I'll be glad submit it for consideration. I just want to see if this was something the general body of ARA shooters would like to see done! And what thoughts they have regarding how it should be implemented. I see where Don has a point on the A-line but I’m not sure how much it would change the standings.

Best,

Roger
 
Drop the Agg

I'd like to see them just count the placement you finish, instead of the agg. That way, if you have a bad agg day, but still win the match, it doesn't hurt you.
 
ARA change...........

RvA
I'd like to weigh in here too.......I like your idea,i always thought it was kinda a shame that a really bad day or two could sour your whole season.with your ideamyou could "throw out" a few bad targets by just attending a few more matches. I also think it might [cause] a few shooters to stay for a match when the conditions are less than optimal? If i go to a match....I SHOOT it but......there are a few that will just not even unpack rather than take a chance on a ruined agg.Anyhow.....just my thoughts.
BTW...Roger, how bout sending some good weather this way...[sunny,70deg. calm wind]...i still have not got to fire a round with my new RvA tuner weight set!
Colt.45
 
Rejected

I already had one proposal shot down. I proposed, that we be allowed to drop our worst ten shots, and keep our best ten sighter's. President, says "No Way", although it did sound intriguing
 
A-line

DonMatzeder said:
I would not be in favor of that for the A line but for the Stat line, it would be perfect...
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Don. I agree with you. It would be better for everyone if it is done for the stat line. The A -line is a reflection of your total score and should be left as is. garrisone.
 
I'm against the proposal. If your agg is to low, why not increase it the old fashion way, by shooting higher scores? The current agg is a true reflection of what you shot. In some
areas of the country scores will be lower, but so what. The best shooter will win on Labor day weekend, not someone's ego inflated best 40 score.
Why are people always trying to change ARA. If you don't like it, start your own orginzation, or
go shoot 50/50.
Takecare Kevin Kunkle
 
Why award hall of fame points to guys that dodge shooting matches on tough days? Something needs to change. I agree with Fred, winning matches should be the only thing that matters. We shot a match at Livonia yesterday and the attendance was pitiful, conditions were tough and Marvin Batliner took us to school. The May match will be a night match and I'll guarantee a huge crowd. What a DAMN shame. There is no more satisfying feeling than to win a match in tough conditions, but a lot of ARA shooters will never know, or maybe they do know what will happen to them if they show up.


Any game within a game that rewards shooters for not shooting in tough conditions is absolute BS. JMHO Kirk Gaston
 
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shoot often said:
I'm against the proposal. If your agg is to low, why not increase it the old fashion way, by shooting higher scores? The current agg is a true reflection of what you shot. In some areas of the country scores will be lower, but so what. The best shooter will win on Labor day weekend, not someone's ego inflated best 40 score.
Why are people always trying to change ARA. If you don't like it, start your own orginzation, or go shoot 50/50.
Takecare Kevin Kunkle
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Hey Kev,

I think the intent here is to encourage people to shoot even under the worst conditions ... rather than sit "the bad days out". That may not be your approach to shooting, or mine, but it is in fact the way some "manage their agg". If everyone goes under the "best 40 rule" you still would have a valid standing. As far as "if you don't like it, start your own", shame on you ... what's wrong with a sanction that is governed by what the majority of its participants want. Last time I looked that was called a democracy.

Fred
 
A line

I looked up how many targets Joe Beshe shot last year. How many days do you think he sat out because of bad conditions?
 
J Pappas said:
I looked up how many targets Joe Beshe shot last year. How many days do you think he sat out because of bad conditions?
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Hi James .... please don't think the my "manage their agg" statement was directed at eveyone. But it is to a few.

Fred
 
Sitting out

Hi James
Joe Besche don't ever sit out a match because of tough conditions!! The tougher it is, the better he likes it! But there are a few...that do sit out an "agg. killer". I just think that RvA might have a good idea that might get some people to not sit out tough matches? Like i said, if i go, i'm shooting!
Colt.45
 
If we are seriously concidering a change, in the Stat line, not the A line, from a practical point of view we are talking about a lot of extra work for the ARA bookkeeper. Polly currently does not record individual target scores, I don't think. It could be a roll up of the best match aggs to total a minumum of 40 targets and not add a lot of book work.
 
How so Fred? We are talking about the Stat Line. The A line folks still have all the incentive in the world to shoot. The Stat line chasers will shoot in the good weather and have no disincentive to shoot when the wind blows. The winners in the past have shot a minimum number of targets. Without checking real close, I think Richard shot more than most with 70 some cards last year. I know he would have shot more if he was not protecting an agg. In fact, if he was behind, he would have a great incentive to shoot all he could to try to drop a bad match from his record.
 
Actually, Rogers proposal might breath some new life into ARA in some areas of the country. I can't speak for all the other Northeast ARA match directors that dropped ARA after last year, but I quit because I felt I was shooting against some of the aforementioned "agg managers" on the national level. When my 40X wouldn't shoot in the heat, I still drove 3 hrs to attend matches where my friends were shooting. I shot 70 targets 2 years ago(and 100 the year before), and because I showed up for some of those matches with either a heavy gun that wouldn't shoot or my IR50/50 Sporter, my agg and my A-line standing suffered. My agg that year was 1984, good for 37th on the agg/stat line. I barely managed to stay in the top 100 on the A-line. I guess that was my fault for showing up at the matches when I KNEW I wasn't going to shoot well.

I started out shooting IR50/50, tried ARA, and I'll stay with IR50/50, where I won't be penalized for showing up at a match for the sake of having a good time, even if I don't shoot well. ARA might not have many rules, but some of the few you do have need to be changed.

Todd Banks
Former ARA MD
Current IR50/50 and RBA MD
Salem Pistol and Rifle Club (NY)
Owlkill Rod and Gun Club(NY)
 
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