Another silly question . . . .

Afponicky,

So, long story short, in post #4, you got a valid, honest answer, not definative because in shooting, as you well know, there is a lot that cannot be precisely defined and everybody that does this is trying to make little incremental steps in rf. That is either the challange or the turn off, take your pick, remember there will be nothing to substitute for your own hard earned experience.
 
wilburs post brings up some interesting points along with some others i would like to add my son makes lots of money he is a middle of the road golfer not a great driver so i personally think he lacks fundementals so instead of getting some lessons he continues to purchase some very fine golfing equipment and is still a middle of the road golfer no matter what he spends his latest purchase a 160.00 driver. i think he needs to take lessons and keep going back when he falters. remember tiger is going back for tune ups!

if you read joe friedricks story to the top in 3 years and tonys story they spend a lot of time at this game im not sure joe is anymore not only time but money money money. how dedicated are we to this sport? can we take money away from out families in this age? there will always be those that have the dedication and the money to reach the top of their game i suppose for the rest of us we should be shooting barnyards as honestly we cannot ever be as good as those top shooters. this in itself is certainly no disgrace! i think a lot of us happily muddle along.

regards

bob
 
I would pose an interesting concept with one serious flaw at least for BR.
I dont watch racing anymore but I do remember back in the day (dont know if it still exists) a race that was set up using (supposed) identical cars. The idea was to test the greatest drivers capabilities.
In BR because of the barrel we cant do this, unless the shooters used the same equipment in relay.
With the wind being the same and without temps changing, what would the result be in a poor, good and top shooter be in going to the line one after the other using the same exact equipment (not identically the same but the same gun) on the same bench?
In reverse what would the result be if you took a bad setup with bad ammo and had each person shoot that setup?

Remember I am not talking about 3 identical setups but rather 1 set up shot by 3 different people under the same identical weather conditions.
 
You see it every year at nationals. Three guys with one good gun and tag teaming the field. Very often, with a very good gun, they all finish well.
 
Vern
You may have been referencing IROC racing from Nascar?

To test your shooting theory out simply take your most accurate rig to your local range and shoot a few groups.Now let some passers by shoot your gun and see how they do.
What you'll likely find is most peoples groups will improve dramatically with the equipment they are shooting.
I pretty much let anyone try my equipment and ordinary people who shoot tend to do very well.I will on occasion get a nerd of sorts who will spend 5 minutes between shots and the groups will be horrific.The shooters who are comfortable seem to do the best.

Gary
A large group of posters on the various message boards don't compete in the shooting sports.They hear things from the neighbors,uncles,mailman who delivers to a pool supply guy who has firsthand knowledge from a dog groomer that big name competitor XXXXX uses this ammo and this barrel and always wins.

Your best bet is a mentor.

Your next best bet is to find out the persons real name then do a google search.If the poster is always talking in a past tense and is not winning matches or placing top 10 locate your ignore button and add the name.

As to hambone I believe he is a competitor from the UK and the large distance across the water means his sense of humor and posting style might not be familiar to shooters over here.I am positive the shooters from Australia or having a tough time understanding the shooters from Georgia as well.
As to the bashing it will always be there/here.This is after all full on competition not a quick trip to the range for some plinking.
Lynn
 
don

arent those 3 people very gifted shooters in their own right. how about a shooter takes a winners rifle and finishes almost dead last how does this get accounted for? i hate bringing up my neighbor but this man is a champion shooter in a very difficult game and he wins consistantly with rifles that are not smithed by well known people. i have tried to get him interested in r/f-br but he is committed to what he does i know he would made a serious shooter as i have had him shoot my b/r rifles and he outshoots me by far with no great rests just off his bags.

doesnt make sense does it

bob

bob
 
I guess all I could say is if a guy finishes dead last with a gun and ammo that finished first at a big shoot is that guy was doing something very wrong. Either in set up or he did not understand the wind. As far as the three talented shooters, the depth of the field at the Nationals is such that over half the shooters there are great shooters. Something in common between those three made the difference and I'm betting on the gun and ammo.
 
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this isn't your personnel little posting place for put downs, hits, and the "I'm better than you are".
Probably because you are all on your own ego trips and sides with each other.
Besides all the comfortable ARSE HOLES who just don't get it just keep going on and on about what someone else said or has done and offer nothing but put downs.
It is not your private little site. If you want to help and educate us newbies, than do that!

Gary

Good words.
 
Ok, maybe I got a little over board but I think someone had to say something. If I was wrong so be it, I spoke my mind. So since that is out, and past may I ask all of you who here is a great shooter? Who here goes to the big matches and has or does place?

Who here has mentored someone?
Who here is willing to mentor someone?

Thanks, Gary
 
As to hambone I believe he is a competitor from the UK and the large distance across the water means his sense of humor and posting style might not be familiar to shooters over here.I am positive the shooters from Australia or having a tough time understanding the shooters from Georgia as well.
As to the bashing it will always be there/here.

Lynn

Much appreciated.

I've never been one to be overly bothered by or for the opinions of those I don't respect, and our pair of moaning minnies fall firmly into that category AFAIC
 
Gary

I don't consider the views express over board at all. I believe you spoke for many, and your views to be well founded.
 
Nobody that has any success at this game does much horn blowing. You might check the lists and standings from the last few year of the major associations. You've heard from several in this thread.
 
Ok, maybe I got a little over board but I think someone had to say something. If I was wrong so be it, I spoke my mind. So since that is out, and past may I ask all of you who here is a great shooter? Who here goes to the big matches and has or does place?

Who here has mentored someone?
Who here is willing to mentor someone?

Thanks, Gary


Gary,

There are a number of ways to get mentoring. First thing, you don't need a world-class shooter, at least, not at first. Still, you could try hiring someone to give lessons. It's not common, but worth a try. Secondly, there is a Benchrest school, I believe in Ohio. It's CF, but there are a number of things where RF and CF are the same. A lot that are different, too. Or maybe the RF guys will start one soon.

But the best way, I think, was hinted at by Wilbur. It was the path I took -- by accident -- over 20 year ago. I was interested in benchrest, so went to the local club matches, just to watch. They had one each month. One of the guys who was always high up on the leader board wanted a new James Messer-built rifle, so he was selling the rifle he'd been doing so well with. He was willing to throw in anything I wanted, as long as I'd pay replacement costs. Along with the rifle, I bought his dies, some bullets, and an 8-pound jug (half used) powder. If I'd have been smart, I would have bought his rests and bags, too. Obviously, this was centerfire, for point-blank group shooting. He as also willing to help me a fair bit, and he was helping with a rifle he knew well.

Benchrest shooters are a fickle bunch. Somebody's always selling a perfectly good rifle.

Now as I found out when I eventually moved from club level to NBRSA sanctioned matches, he was a upper-middle of the pack shooter at the regional level. Hardly world class. But to this day, I'm convinced that he shortened up my learning curve. I moved up the leader board at the club matches, and even the regional matches, faster than most of the newbies, and it wasn't because I was some sort of "natural" shooter. Just had help.

* * *

As you're discovering, the internet is a hard place to get certain kinds of information. It works best when you already know a particular kind of shooting pretty well, and just want some additional information or specifics on technique. How to uniform meplats and re-point bullets would be a good example from 1,000 yard shooting. "What's a good chambering" or "what's a good load" are impossible to answer, yet to the new shooter, are the most obvious questions to ask. So, even if RF is your chosen form of benchrest competition, read some of the other forums to see what kinds of things get a useful treatment.

* * *

On the bashing. There is a history of this in rimfire. No need to rehash all the old arguments. I've noticed its common when any of the shooting sports begin a new phase. It happened a long time ago in short-range group. We still have a few remnants of the IBS/NBRSA spit. It happened in 1,000 yard BR all throughout the 1990s. I suspect rimfire will quiet down in a few years. Unfortunately, until then, us versus them is a large part of the game. (And by the way, I'm not going to apologize for having an education... ;-)

Good luck,

Charles
 
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Charles Please don't apologize for having an education.

Think about this guys, I do have a lot of shooting experience like I said before. Just not BR. I am always open to learning and to watching, seeing, listening to others.

But I feel like I have to pick between the North and the South! I just want to learn from anyone I can. If I start to talk to or post on certain sites or befriend someone on a certain site I don't want to be labeled. That is how ALL of you on BOTH sites are coming across.

I will never be a world class shooter (well if I do I'll really be surprised) but I want to become the best I can in what I am interested at this time of my life. I will never have the years and experience that a lot of you do. But I guess I want to learn and hear from the best and worst of both sides.

I think that someday I may be able to hold my own against some of you, but I bet my daughter will be better. Guess I'm just the Pig to get the right stuff for her to expand and excel in her shooting.


I can say though that your all good people but at the same time you all can be a bunch of arse-holes too! Guess I have to learn how to just laugh it off, and read in between the lines.

But seriously, some of you can be real arse holes I have learned. I'm sure I'll be one at a point more than once.

I appreciate the comments and I do feel better talking to you guys. So put up with my arse and just remember you started out green also....


Gary
 
Gary - pretty sure you've made your point. Moving on, where do you live (approximately), how far and how often are you willing to travel to matches? The season will be in full swing before we know it.
 
Lake Erie border in Ohio. Travel depends on what weekend I have my kids. More than likely the weekend I have them. My daughter is ready to out shoot me. Be good for me to learn, even better for her. Dam* she will probably out shoot me this year, would be good for some outside influence to help her.
 
Depending on the game you want to play (ARA or IR50/50) there should be several rimfire BR ranges within an couple hour drive of your location. Go to the ARA and IR50/50 websites and look at the club listings.
 
Gary - pretty sure you've made your point. Moving on, where do you live (approximately), how far and how often are you willing to travel to matches? The season will be in full swing before we know it.

Gary, there is nothing wrong with this Forum and the various threads and Wilbur does a fantastic job...

You are just overly picky and apparently cluless regards chatboards and posting...

Every chatboard has a few "offkey" posters and you just became one of them...

The great shooters that win all the matches don't post here or anywhere else for that matter, other than an occasional one liner....

A wealth of knowledge can be had here....one just has to have the mental capacity to discern between the BS and the Reality...

A great lot of BS and Humor also gets posted here along with some gripes and flaming...use your mouse if you don't like it...

enough said...
 
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