ANOTHER floating reamer holder question & a prebore question

A

alinwa

oft dis'd member
#1, homemade floating reamer pusher;

In looking at the various hand-held setups it looks to me as if most of them push on the "handle" that's clamped to the reamer shank..... for instance one of them uses a Sinclair case holder, others use a collar with a handle threaded into the side.

It looks as though the pusher setup is just a hollow tube bearing on the handle assembly.

My question is this..... how do we know that the handle is really perpendicular to the pusher? Is this an issue at all? What I'm seeing is that the setup doesn't really float during the reaming process but pretty much "fixes" while the reamer is plunged the .010-.075 for the cut.

Of course when you back everything out to clean the reamer (NON-flush system) it resets but???? Is it true that while actually reaming the pusher is probably bearing at only one point in the circumference of the pusher tube? Plus, as I see it the reamer humps up a little as you cut......

Or are you guys just letting the back of the reamer itself bottom out in the tube of the pusher?

(I dunno if any of this makes sense)



And #2, preboring;


Manual lathe, G4003G.


I've heard of folks setting the preboring angle by running an indicator down the flutes to set the angle. How is this done? Do you adjust the stylus to ride down below or behind the cutting edge? I don't like the idea of riding a hardened stylus on the cutter.....

Or is it OK to pre-drill and then just true up a half inch at the rear and let the reamer fill in the gap?

thanks


al
 
I'll comment on the pre-boring part. Since I like to the the whole barrel chamber/threading in one set-up, that means the compound has to be moved. I drill shy of the shoulder depth, and true the hole with a boring tool, straight in. I go for about .010" smaller than shoulder diameter. That centers the reamer nicely with what you indicated the throat at.
 
First, giving the reamer half a chance it will self center. Many of these tailstock mounted reamer holders drop to the bottom of their float and stay there thus reaming an oversize hole.

If the picture of my floating pusher setup is still in the archives ( I can't get this new archive search to work) you will notice the handle was faced in the same setup the hole was bored. The reamer does not bottom in the pusher hole but is propelled by the rim.

As to the drill/bore operaton, I have always just straight bored. I do step it; first boring cut, about 3/4" deep and about 0.010/side. Second boring cut, another 0.010"/side and about 1/2" deep, then one last similar cut.
 
This may help.

2q1bbk7.jpg
 
JerrySharrett said:
If the picture of my floating pusher setup is still in the archives ( I can't get this new archive search to work) you will notice the handle was faced in the same setup the hole was bored. The reamer does not bottom in the pusher hole but is propelled by the rim.

As to the drill/bore operaton, I have always just straight bored. I do step it; first boring cut, about 3/4" deep and about 0.010/side. Second boring cut, another 0.010"/side and about 1/2" deep, then one last similar cut.
Click to expand...

OK, that makes life easier...... MAKE the holder/driver and step the hole.

nice

al
 
Al, for what follows, I'm like Feldwebel Schultz -- "I know nothing, nothinnnng." Well, not much, anyway. But here goes.

Long ago, a well known gunsmith, on giving me & Joel some preliminary advice remarked that one problem he sometimes encountered with boring a chamber then feeding the reamer, was when not much supported the reamer, and an Ackley (40-degree) shoulder was involved. In those cases, the reamer was more apt to chatter.

I haven't said it well. It's a plus if the reamer has support on the sides when the shoulder begins serious cutting. I suspect Jerry's stepped boring accomplishes just that, as does boring on a taper.

Jerry, your thoughts?
 
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Charles E said:
Long ago, a well known gunsmith, on giving me & Joel some preliminary advice .........

Jerry, your thoughts?
Click to expand...

My thoughts? Its "Joel and I " not "me and Joel" Tee Hee



I've done several Ackley chambers by this method and never had one to chatter. Just lucky?? Dunno.

Two I have done in the last month were a 250 Savage AI and a 25/06 AI.
 
My Dear Mr. Sharrett:

What I was trying to convey, apparently without success, was that your three-stepped hole would seem to offer more support for the reamer, when compared to a hole bored straight, with a common diameter. Practically speaking, it rivals a (correctly) tapered hole.

However, that was only an assumption. It would seem you have no further thoughts on the matter?

In passing, I would note that the "h" in "Hee" should not be capitalized in the context of your remarks.

Sincerely, Etc.
 
Touche' on the Tee hee..

Seriously, as to taper boring and step boring both seem to work. The taper boring creats more work which I am medically ahd hermetically opposed..
 
Just to add to the number of ways to skin a cat, I've had excellent luck pre - drilling well undersized up to 1 3/4 inches deep, then pre- boring to .015" or .020" less than the shoulder diamerer, followed by a section at the rear maybe 3/8" to 1/2" long bored just .002" under shoulder diameter. This starts the reamer dead true. I've never had one go out of line like this, and no chatter problems either. Very similar to Jerry's method, just fewer steps.
 
Messr's Ellertson & Sharrett, I disagree..... it is my contention that neither the tee nor the hee need be capitalized in this context.

To all...... thank you'se for the understanding. When I 'learned' this stuff back in Pine Technical Institute's Gunsmithing program in '82 we learned the Brownell's method. All chambers were cut entirely with the reamer(s) and the idea'r of HOLDING the hannle would have been severiously frown'ed upon.

I'm trying to relearn good habits this time around.

Regarding Crow's shortcut...... I'm still a little skeered of drill bits. For now I'll take the time to run a boring bar in just to open up the surface for first bite.

Anybody here actually ever try Kiff's recommended lubricant? Type 'F' tranny fluid?

thanks

al
 
Al, you're right again. There needed to be some punctuation after '. . . and Joel" ' I assumed a period, but a comma would have worked as well. Had he used a period, the T would need to be a capital, but with a comma, lower case would be correct.

By the way, commas and periods go inside a close quote, e.g., "Me and Joel." or "Me and Joel," are correct. Either a colon or semicolon, on the other hand, goes outside, e.g., "Me and Joel":

Jerry's use of punctuation is so bad it's hard to tell just what mistakes he has made :) (or should that be "which mistakes"?).

* * *

Lots of people use a drill first. You're just removing metal. The boring bar fixes whatever crookedness gets introduced.

Small, stiff bars are an oxymoron. Not cheap, either. I'd rather drill first, so as to use a larger & stiffer bar.

FWIW
 
Correcticus E.

What I meant to say is..... "I'll continue to run a boring bar in after drilling to open up the surface." And of course to true it all up.

al
 
Charles E said:
Jerry's use of punctuation is so bad it's hard to tell just what mistakes he has made :) (or should that be "which mistakes"?).

* * *



Small, stiff bars are an oxymoron. Not cheap, either. I'd rather drill first, so as to use a larger & stiffer bar.

FWIW
Click to expand...
Charles if you think my punctuation is bad now, you should see it before I run it through a spell checker. Too many years of computer code like Fortran and APT, too many tech manuals, and a burned out desire for pleasing the teacher. My old "English for Engineers"? Barely a D- and that was some 50+ years ago!!
 
Floating reamer holders that work

Greetings,
There a couple of floating reamer holders out there that don’t settle to the bottom but they are not cheap, around $500 plus the cost of the mounting arbor. These are of the industrial and automotive style with multiple floating elements and guides sealed in a permanently lubed chamber. I use one and I’ll guarantee and then show you that it won’t wallow out the chamber or ream it oversize. The floating reamer holders I’m talking about don’t have enough compliance to accommodate a crappy set up, poor lathe or the bore in the chamber area running in some type of conical configuration. When combined with a high pressure muzzle flush system what they do is give you that little bit of extra precision so that every chamber will pass the strictest scrutiny. When used in the stop the lathe, remove the reamer, blow out the chips, clean the reamer, lube the chamber, lube the reamer, re-insert the reamer and re-start the lathe method you will still get a fantastic chamber it just takes exponentially longer to do. I don’t sell this stuff and I do not personally know the people that do and in fact I made my own high pressure flushing system. But this stuff works and works well. If you are going to do a lot of chambers I highly recommend you looking to this type of tooling and flushing system.

I like how I do it,
Nic.
 
Niccolo said:
Greetings,
There a couple of floating reamer holders out there that don’t settle to the bottom but they are not cheap, around $500 plus the cost of the mounting arbor. These are of the industrial and automotive style with multiple floating elements and guides sealed in a permanently lubed chamber. I use one and I’ll guarantee and then show you that it won’t wallow out the chamber or ream it oversize. The floating reamer holders I’m talking about don’t have Nic.
Click to expand...
Nic, there are (were??) a few expensive flloating holders in the $500 or so range that will work very well for what we need and how we use chamber reamer holders. One such was (is??) made by Ericson, but these are not practical for low volume use. Some of these, such as used by Remington, will occasionally mess up too and make an oversize or off center chambers.

Matter of fact just about all the "made for home use" reamer floaters would work great if we were using them in a vertical spindle application. These same holders CAN make a great chamber if used PROPERLY. If the user remains aware of the forces that control the cutting process and hold the floating part of the holder up so it has neutral weight, the reamer will self center as it needs to.

Mike Bryant was one of the first, if not the first, to use what is now called a floating pusher is so simple to make and use, it is probably not worth the expense to do differently, IMO.
 
JerrySharrett said:
. . .
Mike Bryant was one of the first, if not the first, to use what is now called a floating pusher is so simple to make and use, it is probably not worth the expense to do differently, IMO.
Click to expand...
Best I remember, Mike Bryant said he got the idea from Dave Tooley. Wouldn't surprise me if Dave got it from Charlie Joines. 'Course it wouldn't surprise me if Dave came up with it on his own -- not "first" but "independently." Success has many parents, and one of them is "can't afford the high-dollar stuff."
 
Is it realy required?

I realise in this BR game we should always strive for perfection but i've never really been able to understand the need for a floating reamer holder. I've chambered up about a dozen bbl's now, non of them have any runout or are out of round, none of them have any chatter and none of them are oversized and i've never used a reamer holder yet!
All i simply do is use a dead center in the tail stock to push in the rear of the reamer, and a tapping wrench on the back of the reamer. Hold the tap wrench by hand and feed in. Simple. However before i begin the reaming i set the tail stock in the right position, clamp it down and then using a dial indicator mounted on the chuck face, dial up the tip of the dead center. It's easy to adjust the tail stock to the center, and if i clamp it down real good it's only about 0.0002 over center hight. When im ready to try the action on for headspace, i set the dial indicator on the front of the tailstock body, zero it and then move the tail stock out of the way. When i'm done i can now move the tail stock back to the exact same place on the dial indicator, and lock it back down and continue reaming.

But even if on a not so good setup, you ended up with the rear of the chamber 0.001 0.002 over spec would it realy matter? As long as it's round and on center whats
0.001"?
We spend all this time getting the chamber absolutly perfect and then reload our ammo with a set of dies made to a spec way below our chamber work.:confused: Do you think even the high end dies are going to be this good?

I could have made up a floating holder as shown on this thread in about 20 minuts but i just can't see the need.. Let alone spend $500 on some comercial marvel.. :confused:

Cheers
Leeroy
 
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