Ammo cost

MIKECAMERON said:
Did I say the government charges the companies a fee?NO, they require extra labor and paperwork for the companies to have to deal with hence they(the companies) charge a fee for the extra work and costs associated with the hazxmat regulations.I would expect the companies to keep these fees as it is the companies who are having to put extra work and paperwork into the shipping process the company who doesnt charge the fee probably uses it as a selling point and probably has it included into their normal fee.Do you think that when the government puts new regulations on a company that requires them to do additional labor and reporting that the company should have to absorb those costs?Next time you are on the google web try doing a search of the Hazmat government regulations, read them and maybe you will have an idea of what the shipping companies have to deal with.
May I ask what did you do for a living Pete?
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Mike, it wasn't you who said the shipper sent the fee to the Government. I am retired and have been for three years. Prior th my retirement I worked as a Town Manager for 5 years and prior to that I had an Insurance/ Financial Services Agency. I don't see what a consumer does for a living has to do with them being raped by shipping charges and shippers. It wasn't that many years ago that folks selling things sent them freight free. Handeling charges weren't a profit center back then and the cost of Shipping was at least 200% below what it is now considering Ernie calculate an increase of 160 some percent increase as I recall.

There have been a lot of regulation placed on all kiinds of business in America that didn't entail the company imposing what amounter perhaps a 100% increase in the cost of the delivery of items such as powder and primers. Back when the Hazmat Charge was imposed it was at least as much and most often more than the freight charge was and is now, even. UPS and Fed EX does not have to charge anything but they do and did choose to. I believe they did it simply because they could, as many other sellers charge exorbatent handeling charges now. I perused the site of an Air Gun Dealer the other day and they have a stated price for handeling that is so far out of line, nobody in their right mind would ever use them. They state flatly that they only will do it one way with the implication that one takes it or leaves it, trying to make it sound like it was a good thing. I thought it a very haughty attitude for a business to hold out but, hey, what do I know?
 
What you know about business, is what I was trying to discern, and you have answered my question, not much.UPS and Fed-x and any other shipper doesnt have to charge for hazmat but anyone with a feeble understanding of business should know that when you have to add labor costs you have to go up on the fees charged or go out of business.In the time you have quoted there has been a very significant jump in fuel costs and government regulation costs.I dont like the costs of shipping any more than anyone else as I ship 5 to 15 packages EVERY BUSINESS DAY.But being aware of how business works (as I own my own business and pay attention to these things) I understand how it works.I told my wife after my last post that if you answered(and I didnt have any doubt you would) that you were a government worker, or at least had a job with no understanding of product production at all.Understanding this now let me say, nothing personal, but you will never understand what is happening but I wish you would be careful when you make statements like you did that prove it, and that is the last I will say about it.
Mike Cameron
 
What someone makes or what someone does for a living has nothing to do with ammo prices. I want to compete. I'll buy it as much as I can to compete as much as I can. That is what I do. If you have a bigger ego than that then keep complaining.

John M. Carper aka Carp
 
MIKECAMERON said:
What you know about business, is what I was trying to discern, and you have answered my question, not much.UPS and Fed-x and any other shipper doesnt have to charge for hazmat but anyone with a feeble understanding of business should know that when you have to add labor costs you have to go up on the fees charged or go out of business.In the time you have quoted there has been a very significant jump in fuel costs and government regulation costs.I dont like the costs of shipping any more than anyone else as I ship 5 to 15 packages EVERY BUSINESS DAY.But being aware of how business works (as I own my own business and pay attention to these things) I understand how it works.I told my wife after my last post that if you answered(and I didnt have any doubt you would) that you were a government worker, or at least had a job with no understanding of product production at all.Understanding this now let me say, nothing personal, but you will never understand what is happening but I wish you would be careful when you make statements like you did that prove it, and that is the last I will say about it.

Mike, It's a pretty big assumption on your part that I know nothing about business. How do you think I ran a successful Insurance business for 15 years if I knew nothing about it. And before that I owned and ran a medium sized Berry Farm and knew enough about it to get out with my Shirt. I ran a budget of $5m or so at the Town I managed. I probably don't know anything, silly me :) .

I will never forgive the shippers for raping us on the Hazmat charge nor will I forgive them or sellers of products from disguising their increases in whatever by calling it something other than what it is. There is no way anyone can make a case for a shipper charging $20 or $25, whichever it is additional for one small package and them shipping thousands of them each day. The package is simply a computer entry and a programer added a program to do the report. If one thinks about the millions they have collected, there is no way to justify the size of the charge. It is a profit center. $5. would have easily done it as far as cost to them is concerned. It's deceitful and unnecessary to do. In spite of what you seem to believe, many if not most of us know what is going on and don't like it. You can try to sugar coat it any way you want but it's still dishonest.
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Perhaps the shipping companies are trying to get someone besides themselves pissed off about the stupid regulations and restrictions that the politicians have put on them.....
 
Back to actual cost of ammo. I just tested 29 different lots of Eley Black box. Amazing what the results were. Want me to tell? I'll drop a bit of info. Out of the 29 lots there were a total of 5 lots I would consider purchasing. More than half were not up to what a single lot of Standard Plus I use for practice can do. Want more details? Spend the $700 I spent for the test lots and after you have tested we can compare results.

Oh, and hazmat fees are not applied to ammo. It is sent with an ORM-D code on the box. If you purchase primers and or powder they do require the hazmat fee. Anyone ever bother to look up the penalty to a shipper for NOT charging the hazmat fee? You might be surprised if you do. bob
 
Pete Wass said:
MIKECAMERON said:
What you know about business, is what I was trying to discern, and you have answered my question, not much.UPS and Fed-x and any other shipper doesnt have to charge for hazmat but anyone with a feeble understanding of business should know that when you have to add labor costs you have to go up on the fees charged or go out of business.In the time you have quoted there has been a very significant jump in fuel costs and government regulation costs.I dont like the costs of shipping any more than anyone else as I ship 5 to 15 packages EVERY BUSINESS DAY.But being aware of how business works (as I own my own business and pay attention to these things) I understand how it works.I told my wife after my last post that if you answered(and I didnt have any doubt you would) that you were a government worker, or at least had a job with no understanding of product production at all.Understanding this now let me say, nothing personal, but you will never understand what is happening but I wish you would be careful when you make statements like you did that prove it, and that is the last I will say about it.

Mike, It's a pretty big assumption on your part that I know nothing about business. How do you think I ran a successful Insurance business for 15 years if I knew nothing about it. And before that I owned and ran a medium sized Berry Farm and knew enough about it to get out with my Shirt. I ran a budget of $5m or so at the Town I managed. I probably don't know anything, silly me :) .

I will never forgive the shippers for raping us on the Hazmat charge nor will I forgive them or sellers of products from disguising their increases in whatever by calling it something other than what it is. There is no way anyone can make a case for a shipper charging $20 or $25, whichever it is additional for one small package and them shipping thousands of them each day. The package is simply a computer entry and a programer added a program to do the report. If one thinks about the millions they have collected, there is no way to justify the size of the charge. It is a profit center. $5. would have easily done it as far as cost to them is concerned. It's deceitful and unnecessary to do. In spite of what you seem to believe, many if not most of us know what is going on and don't like it. You can try to sugar coat it any way you want but it's still dishonest.
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You're damned right Pete, it's a national outrage. I truly believe as an act of a free thinking American you should send a message. Sell all your rimfire equipment and ammo as an act of patriotic protest. send a message that will not be forgotten to these greedy b..tards, rumor has it that hazmat goes to the reelect Obama fund anyway.
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tim said:
Pete Wass said:
You're damned right Pete, it's a national outrage. I truly believe as an act of a free thinking American you should send a message. Sell all your rimfire equipment and ammo as an act of patriotic protest. send a message that will not be forgotten to these greedy b..tards, rumor has it that hazmat goes to the reelect Obama fund anyway.
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What it realllllly is, is our compaciency in accepting whatever anyone asks of us. The more we accept, the more they push it down out throats. We are our own worst enemies. There is not much chance I will sell my RF stuff any time soon. I want to beat yo Butt sometime before I die :). And you are right, It is a National Outrage that we are such Mullets.
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bob finger said:
Back to actual cost of ammo. I just tested 29 different lots of Eley Black box. Amazing what the results were. Want me to tell? I'll drop a bit of info. Out of the 29 lots there were a total of 5 lots I would consider purchasing. More than half were not up to what a single lot of Standard Plus I use for practice can do. Want more details? Spend the $700 I spent for the test lots and after you have tested we can compare results.

Oh, and hazmat fees are not applied to ammo. It is sent with an ORM-D code on the box. If you purchase primers and or powder they do require the hazmat fee. Anyone ever bother to look up the penalty to a shipper for NOT charging the hazmat fee? You might be surprised if you do. bob
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Bob, so that I won't have to look it up, does the Govt require that a shipper charge a specific Hazmat Charge?
 
Bottom line to this ammo cost (shipping cost) thing is we are going to pay it or we can shoot what Walmart sells. There isn't anything we can do about it now is there.

Scott
 
bigredplane said:
Bottom line to this ammo cost (shipping cost) thing is we are going to pay it or we can shoot what Walmart sells. There isn't anything we can do about it now is there.

Scott
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Not much except complain. If enough of us complain then something might change but as long as we are willling to keep paying, absolutely nothing will change except the prices for everything will keep going higher and higher and them on the other end smiling all the while.
 
Pete: Complaining might make you feel better. If you want to change things complaining to the proper folks is just as important as anything. You are too lazy to look up the regulations yet you want to change things. Educate yourself my friend then go complain to someone who can change things. I doubt anyone reading this thread is in that position, or it is very unlikely to be so. bob
 
fees

the hazmat is like a lot of the official sounding fees we pay for the phone and electric the companies give them a federal sounding name so people pay them. FPL put some lame charge on our bill and the psc cought them they had to give it back. I think ups is charging the fee because they keep having to pay people for lost stuff ammo powder I had 8# h110 arrive empty
 
11/21/11 Received an email this morning from UPS.Their net increase for 2012 is 4.9%.
 
ONLY 4.9 . The SS COLA is 3.6 and Medicare will eat that ! Airguns, 500 competative pellet for about $10.00
 
So go shoot airguns and have fun they just dont do anything for me.
 
I am in the process Mike and have shot in one event. They are exactly the same as RF guns are; perhaps a bit more difficult to shoot. It is certainly a heck of a lot easier to find a place to shoot them. Most people can shoot them in their Back Yard without any issues. They are, in their own way, every bit as technical as RF rifles are. I look for the Airgun Benchrest Sport to grow, for the reasons I have mentioned. I have schedules three events at our club for 2012, one to co-inside with a Rimfire Event the following day. I see the two as Kissing Cousins as I guess the Position shooters do as our club has both types or rifles and pistols fot their shooters.
 
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Did I say the government charges the companies a fee?NO, they require extra labor and paperwork for the companies to have to deal with hence they(the companies) charge a fee for the extra work and costs associated with the hazxmat regulations.I would expect the companies to keep these fees as it is the companies who are having to put extra work and paperwork into the shipping process the company who doesnt charge the fee probably uses it as a selling point and probably has it included into their normal fee.Do you think that when the government puts new regulations on a company that requires them to do additional labor and reporting that the company should have to absorb those costs?Next time you are on the google web try doing a search of the Hazmat government regulations, read them and maybe you will have an idea of what the shipping companies have to deal with.
May I ask what did you do for a living Pete?
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So then, the haz mat is not an actual fee? It is what we are being charged (gouged) for the documents to be filled out and filed by the shippers? And they charge us $25.00 to do this! Are you kidding me? Well Mikecameron sometimes perception can be truer the reality and UPS is neither our friends nor are they as perfect as you want to describe them. They loose stuff, they damage stuff and they steal stuff, isn't it true they don't ship handguns by land because their drivers were stealing the handguns? You are not the only person who has experience with UPS and they may be one of the best at what they do, but they screw up, a lot and you can not speak for every UPS hub in the USA. I have been using the post office as much as I can, you can't beat the if it fits it ships boxes. Oh and another thing Mike, I also have had first hand experience with our local UPS hub (5 miles away) about shipping long guns and them telling me they can't ship a rifle for me unless it's going to an arms manufacturer or thru a FFL holder, so I have to take the bolt out and ship gun as parts.
Just my opinion I could be wrong.
Dave T
 
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