Air Rifles

T

tonykharper

Well-known member
I have a thread on the Air Rifle forum called Head Count.

It has came to my attention that there are Air Rifles capable of shooting 50 Yards and they may be competitive with rimfires.

I've also looked and found there are very few places that offer 50 yard matches for air rifles.

So I thought why not invite the Air gunners to attend rimfire matches. We can use the attendance and maybe we will all learn something.

I would really be interested in what you guys think about the idea.

Please post your thoughts here.

TKH
 
Tony, I'd sure welcome them at my matches. I don't know of any air gunners locally but there are a few down in Mass. Perhaps they'd come?
I'm all for whatever it takes to boost attendance & interest in any of the BR sports. Who knows there may be some crossover in either direction. And thats a good thing!

Keith
 
recon1st said:
Do they shoot outdoors? I have shot one, and yes they are close to our rimfires. Whole different game.

Dean
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Dean,

Yes, Air gunners want to shoot 50 yards outdoors. This type of Air Rifle Benchrest is fairly new and I hope to see it get off the ground.

If Rimfire shooters and our sanctioning bodies will allow it this will give Air gunners many more opportunities to compete.

On the other hand it will help attendance at our matches and support the individuals and clubs that put on these matches.

IR 50 has already agreed to allow air rifles to compete in the unlimited class. Of course each match director will have to OK this to ensure

he can handle the additional shooters. I'm sure there will be some matches where it will not be possible.

TKH
 
tonykharper said:
dean,

yes, air gunners want to shoot 50 yards outdoors. This type of air rifle benchrest is fairly new and i hope to see it get off the ground.

If rimfire shooters and our sanctioning bodies will allow it this will give air gunners many more opportunities to compete.

On the other hand it will help attendance at our matches and support the individuals and clubs that put on these matches.

Ir 50 has already agreed to allow air rifles to compete in the unlimited class. Of course each match director will have to ok this to ensure

he can handle the additional shooters. I'm sure there will be some matches where it will not be possible.

Tkh
Click to expand...
tv shows them cuting cards in half at 25 ft but there is always the wind.
 
Airguns

Do the air rifles really have the ability to compete with the unlimited rimfires at 50y? I have a nice PCP 22cal air rifle and while it is not an Annie or Walther it shoots OK at 35y but really begins to open up at 50y to the point that the groups are at least twice the size of my better rimfire rifles. The olympic grade air guns might do better but I have no experience with them.
 
JG26_Irish said:
Do the air rifles really have the ability to compete with the unlimited rimfires at 50y? I have a nice PCP 22cal air rifle and while it is not an Annie or Walther it shoots OK at 35y but really begins to open up at 50y to the point that the groups are at least twice the size of my better rimfire rifles. The olympic grade air guns might do better but I have no experience with them.
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The air rifles would be purpose built for 50y using slugs not pellets. Think of it this way, I would not take my savage, cz, tikka, etc to a ARA match to compete against those purpose built rifles on the unlimited target. The manufactured air Rifles like FX, Daystate, RAW are the same as what I call the factory line of rimfire rifles shooters are using for the Factory class in ARA.

You are right, these manufactured air rifles would not be able to compete with those rifles.

Regards,
Joe
 
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Joe knows the scoop, IIRC he has been playing with them for quite a while now. Slugs in air rifles vs the diablo pellets - the pellets seem to have a limit velocity wise pushng beyond it creats unstability or something. That being apx 8-900fps. Slugs are going to require experimentation with twist rates and velocity. The 45 and 50 caliber air units are almost equall to muzzel loaders energy wise with the same weight slugs. Based on the recomended charge rate by volume for those muzzel loaders- 50 cal = 50 grains of 2f by volume +/- 10%. IIRC slugs are not allowed in the sanctioned Air Benchrest Rules at present, also limited to .177 or.22 cals. ( there are slugs and molds around for these). Then there is the marketing hype of the 1000+ fps units- well, yes with a 6.5 gain .177 cal pellet but for the most part beyond 10 meters good luck. The Olympic match stye air rifles are built to the current velocity limits of apx 550 fps - 7-8 foot pounds of energy in .177. This is shot at 10 meters ( 33 ft.) the period at the end of sentence here is the x ring. the 9 ring is apx .177 dia ( note i am likely a bit off on that it has been many years since I was competeing in that). Both Styer and Walther make units in the 15-20 ft pound class for Field target competitions- there are others as well ( 7-900 fps in .177 and .22). Air units can twist your mind almost as bad as Rimfire. Just a different set of variables to deal with. I could likely type a page or two just lighly covering basics.
 
Joe Friedrich said:
The air rifles would be purpose built for 50y using slugs not pellets. Think of it this way, I would not take my savage, cz, tikka, etc to a ARA match to compete against those purpose built rifles on the unlimited target. The manufactured air Rifles like FX, Daystate, RAW are the same as what I call the factory line of rimfire rifles shooters are using for the Factory class in ARA.

You are right, these manufactured air rifles would not be able to compete with those rifles.

Regards,
Joe
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Joe,

Since you have great experience with both rimfire and air rifles your opinion carries a lot of weight.

Thank you for joining this thread. Maybe you can expand on what you said about what it would take for an air rifle to complete with

match grade rimfires or if it is even possible.

The idea of being able to make and quality control your own slugs is very appealing. But only if one can attain the same level of accuracy.

I'm hoping some air gunners will shoot with rimfire guys next summer. If that happens the exchange of ideas should be beneficial for both.

TKH
 
Air rifles are a lot off fun

I have a couple and early on in the BR thing I bought a good Position rifle and competed with it. I knew more sophisticated rifles would come along and sure enough a year or two later the Thomas was created. It made other rifles lacking in a lot of areas, in my opinion. I'm going to sell the two Factory rifles I have and mebby buy a Thomas if this effort gets off the ground. One thing that doesn't change with pellets is the chase for good ones, the same as it is for Rimfire ammo. Likely slugs would change that but we are talking a whole nuther rifle for slugs. Evolution is a great thing, no question.

Pete
 
Here is a purpose built 50y BR slug rifle. It’s a Thomas HP shooting 40gr slugs. Wind drift is similar to rimfire and accuracy is getting close. I’m averaging 248 on the Wrabf 50y card. Last 3 cards with this barrel was a 749 49x in 3-5 mph wind.

Cost per shot is 2 1/2 cents...and you might want to clean the barrel every 1000 shots. Maybe.

Slugs were legalized for use in Usarb unlimited about 6 months ago....which is about the time I started working on getting them to shoot.

Mike
 

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tonykharper said:
Joe,

Since you have great experience with both rimfire and air rifles your opinion carries a lot of weight.

Thank you for joining this thread. Maybe you can expand on what you said about what it would take for an air rifle to complete with

match grade rimfires or if it is even possible.

The idea of being able to make and quality control your own slugs is very appealing. But only if one can attain the same level of accuracy.

I'm hoping some air gunners will shoot with rimfire guys next summer. If that happens the exchange of ideas should be beneficial for both.

TKH
Click to expand...




Tony,

Thanks. Is it possible yes, look at what Mike has accomplished in 6 months. Like in rimfire one name you can relate to BC, who is still passionate about accuracy. This is what it will take, like minded guys who want to push themselves and have one mission to bring out the best.

On the other side you have your manufactures with no dis-respect intended are not catering to true accuracy and can say this because I have purchased 4 high end HP rifles in .22 cal in the last 6 months. The final conclusion without getting to all the specifics, they would not be able to compete even with my factory rifles at 50 yards.

Having control over making your own slugs is huge IMO.

This is still in its infancy and enjoy reading the progression Mike is making and hopeful others will follow suit.

Regards,
Joe
 
Joe Friedrich said:
Tony,

Thanks. Is it possible yes, look at what Mike has accomplished in 6 months. Like in rimfire one name you can relate to BC, who is still passionate about accuracy. This is what it will take, like minded guys who want to push themselves and have one mission to bring out the best.

On the other side you have your manufactures with no dis-respect intended are not catering to true accuracy and can say this because I have purchased 4 high end HP rifles in .22 cal in the last 6 months. The final conclusion without getting to all the specifics, they would not be able to compete even with my factory rifles at 50 yards.

Having control over making your own slugs is huge IMO.

This is still in its infancy and enjoy reading the progression Mike is making and hopeful others will follow suit.

Regards,
Joe
Click to expand...

Sorry to hear high end factory air rifles aren't going to be contenders in 50 yard unlimited benchrest, but I'm not surprised.

We know high end factory rimfires aren't able to successfully compete with the customs so there is no reason to believe air rifles would be different.

I'm sure there are many people out there that own these air rifles that disagree.

Maybe some of these guys will show up at rimfire matches and we will see if they can, or just how close they are.

Mike (Thomas Air Rifles) is leading the way on getting purpose built air rifles up to par in 50 yard Benchrest.

Hopefully he will get more of these purpose built rifles into the hands of people that can help him with this effort.

I think this is a challenge worthy of effort, I hope others do.

TKH
 
Tony,
Forgot to mention Thank you for reaching out to Jason to allow air rifles to compete in IR50.

Also hoping that some will give it a try and see where they stand.

Air rifle BR is a very, very small group compared to other disciplines and even smaller with ones pursuing accuracy at its best. JMHO

It is worthy of the challenges that lay ahead.


Regards,
Joe
 
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