Agenda Items

LD,

I apologize if no one gave you an engraved invitation to visit the website. No "high" officials inside this organization, it is run by the shooters, for the shooters.

No one has been singled out, those attempting to pass misinformation as facts have been challenged and alternate opinions offered.

You, on the other hand, have been absolutely guilty of maligning and belittling shooters, craftsmen and vendors, along with their equipment. A perfect example, "You were the obfuscator, I was the victim." Another where your contempt is obvious, "Enjoy your Championship, sport". I fail to see why if I take you to task on an issue, I am the one that is not professional.

The term "liar" is typical of your denigrating tone. Another term, "the lot of you" is clearly your demeaning style.

No one has done this to you, no one has lumped you in with Tim, you have done this to yourself. Again, allow me to quote your own words, "I guess repeating the same thing over and over is kinda silly, since its clear you are only "seeing" what you want."

I will second your last thought, time to turn the page and move on.
 
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cris said:
Wayne,

There is about an even split regarding the weight limit for the new USA Open class. Some want 20-25 pounds and some want 25-30 pounds. As I mentioned, the custom laminated stocks that can accommodate bottle guns can be quite heavy. Maybe a compromise at 25 pounds will work, ratios are even closer.
Click to expand...

I beg to differ! As most of you either already know, or saw while in S.C., I have a beautifully Laminated Grey/Black full-sized stock on my Theoben, which is a bottle gun, and is fully glass and pillar bedded, and including the Leupold 36X scope plus 6.2 oz. Brass Air Stripper it weighs under 10.5#. In fact, it's so light that I've been considering adding 4 pounds of lead into the butt stock in order to help keep the tail down while riding the bags as right now I feel I need to apply added down-pressure across the top of the pistol grip area with my thumb to help stabilized the gun.

Now, in my humble opinion, the ideal .25 cal. to be considered, which should have plenty of air capacity to complete a full target no matter what the FPE setting, is that new standard size Air Arms S500 FAC Twin Cylinder. At least that's where my money's going when the time comes.

A 20# limit placed on the Open Class should fit just fine as there aren't any factory .22 cal. guns that even come close to being that heavy, even with a scope, so there's still plenty of room for just about any customizing, including Laminated Stocks, while staying within that limit. And, by definition, the Open Class is not meant to be an Unlimited Class, so anyone who is playing around there is mainly doing so because they didn't want to bring their .22 FAC's down enough to fit into the HV-B Class. If they want to think outside of the box that far, then they will simple have to shoot in the Unlimited Class. But, then again, if they are able to think that radically they probably wouldn't have any problem keeping their gun under 20#, and might even enjoy the challenge.

Some of what I said may have already been covered as I'll admit, I did jump in and make this response without reading the last 25 or so posts. If that's the case, I apologize. But I felt it necessary to add another response and didn't want to loose any more sleep before doing so.

Thanks,

Dave
 
Dave,

Thanks for the weight on your rifle. Barrels at 5-6 pounds, stocks at 8-9, scopes and rings pushing 2, you can run out of ounces quick even shooting .22 caliber.

The other thing that was pointed out to me is the ratio between FPE and weight. For a HV rifle, that comes out to 1.33. An Open class rifle at the proposed 35 FPE and 25 pound limit comes out to 1.4.
 
Cris/Steve,

I'll make my point again, in support of Dave's comment...
I'd bet 90% of potential "Open" class shooters are shooting HV B now with guns that are tuned down from 30fpe! I would like to know how many really are interested in more than a 20 lb weight limit. Even that is 5 lbs higher than the HV B now, and should be more than enough to play with. The "Unlimited" class (if you feel a need to mix that in, personally that should be a side shoot as far as I'm concerned)... is where that type of rig belongs.. The game will change too much and scores will not be comparable if we go more than 20 lbs in weight and 35fpe.

Wayne Burns,
Match Director,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
 
Wayne,

Thanks for your feedback. I can certainly see your point but there are shooters who believe they need a little bit more.
 
sence my name was mentioned

LD, nobody is bashing you.......you constantly manage to do it to yourself.
You should take a lesson from your long time friend Tim who in my mind and the majority of the shooting faternity is emerging a winner just because of his understanding and attidude. He unlike you at least had the moxie to accept the facts and appologize for whatever he felt he had created and failed at. I am sure that was a most difficult decision on his part but it tells the rest of us a whole bunch about the man's character. That apology took REAL guts and in the long run will help his business.
FYI ....I hold no position in USARBR
 
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Steve,

Doug Shea, you remember him, the guy who has not only shot several 250's, but also multiple 750's, run his Theoben Rapid .22 cal. with a very nice custom Aluminum Stock at 32+FPE and would still have plenty of room for adding a few more pounds, like about 5, before he'd max out at a 20# limit, so what's you're point? Oh, and he has even done this while using HOCKEY PUCKS as a rear bag.

Wherever WE set the limit, shooters will comply, and there is absolutely no reason to set the limit as high as you're thinking, especially if we're now also back to adding an Unlimited Class as well.

Just my .02¢ worth.

By the way Steve, I won't be available to discuss this before any further here or by phone until the first of next week as I'm leaving in a little while with my wife for a few days away from everything.

Dave
 
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Dave,

Point taken. My point is I am hoping we can get this right. There truly seems to be a split of opinions on this matter. Thanks.
 
Dave Shattuck said:
I beg to differ! As most of you either already know, or saw while in S.C., I have a beautifully Laminated Grey/Black full-sized stock on my Theoben, which is a bottle gun, and is fully glass and pillar bedded, and including the Leupold 36X scope plus 6.2 oz. Brass Air Stripper it weighs under 10.5#. In fact, it's so light that I've been considering adding 4 pounds of lead into the butt stock in order to help keep the tail down while riding the bags as right now I feel I need to apply added down-pressure across the top of the pistol grip area with my thumb to help stabilized the gun.

Now, in my humble opinion, the ideal .25 cal. to be considered, which should have plenty of air capacity to complete a full target no matter what the FPE setting, is that new standard size Air Arms S500 FAC Twin Cylinder. At least that's where my money's going when the time comes.

A 20# limit placed on the Open Class should fit just fine as there aren't any factory .22 cal. guns that even come close to being that heavy, even with a scope, so there's still plenty of room for just about any customizing, including Laminated Stocks, while staying within that limit. And, by definition, the Open Class is not meant to be an Unlimited Class, so anyone who is playing around there is mainly doing so because they didn't want to bring their .22 FAC's down enough to fit into the HV-B Class. If they want to think outside of the box that far, then they will simple have to shoot in the Unlimited Class. But, then again, if they are able to think that radically they probably wouldn't have any problem keeping their gun under 20#, and might even enjoy the challenge.

Some of what I said may have already been covered as I'll admit, I did jump in and make this response without reading the last 25 or so posts. If that's the case, I apologize. But I felt it necessary to add another response and didn't want to loose any more sleep before doing so.

Thanks,

Dave
Click to expand...

Couldn't agree more. In our SA Open class (we have a 30fpe & 15lbs limit) I shoot a .22 Theoben Rapid with BIG laminate stock and Leupold 45x45 Comp Series scope and my total weight is 13lbs. I could add another 2lbs to reach the 15lbs limit but I DON'T need it.
 
Steve
Would it not be better to set up one of those polls that you vote on and take the results and go from there. I have no thoughts on this subject as I am only interested in the 20fpe class.
Larry B
 
Larry,

I thought about that when I started this thread, however, people send emails and call, then they don't post here and the poll would not show their input. Who knows they may be banned from posting, wait, that would be me.
 
Sad day at little rock

Chris/ Steve/ Whoever, Please know that I am saddened in hearing you were drummed off the Yellow Forum. Imagine losing ones dump prevlidges. Must be a sad day in the great state of Florida. Please know that myself and thousands of your loyal fans object to this unfair treatment. Imagine one actually saying what everyone is thinking and getting booted. May I recomend Yoga therapy and Wal-Mart mood candles.
I always see a silver lining in most events and this "Time Out" period wll allow you to complete your two books "Confessions of an Armchair Pundit" and "Copy Cat Designs
Vol 1"
So looking forward to their release on the Yellow forum. Will be super sellers for sure! Looking for signed low number copys.

You #1 Fan
 
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Frank,

My "time out" from that other forum was fair and justified. We were all given a warning and I deliberately disobeyed it and I fully accept the consequences.

After a couple of very quiet and friendly days on the forums and now this, I recall a story you told me about your grandson. How he puts a stick in the fire ant hill and gets those little critters all riled up. When warned that he might be bitten, he innocently looks up and replies, "Sometimes I do and sometimes I don't." The apple definitely does not fall far from the tree.

By the way, it's MISTER Whoever to you.
 
I think there should be a springer class also. I see alot of people going after pcp rifles and they are too easy to shoot. It's a whole different game when dealing with recoil and trying to shoot this hard target. I was just over on another unnamed forum with pretty yellow backround and seen posters from phoenix, NC, and southern califoria all trying some springer builds.
 
Just for the record

And forgive me if someone has already pointed this out, Fred holds the AGBR record for Springer class with his RWS 54. Can't remember the exact score, but it was high 240's, shot with a 20 minute time limit on a target just slightly easier than the World target, and Fred has to stand up to cock that beast for every shot.

We're excluding ALOT of shooters by not having a Springer Class. We've already gone beyond the WRABF classes with UL and Open, why not Springer? Fred shoots alongside Rick and I already, it would be nice if his scores counted towards something.
My .02 worth,
Todd
 
I vote with Todd and Fred. It might bring in some new blood.
Larry B
 
Fred's score 247 not sure of X count

Picture of Fred at Holbrook's Farthers day match. Rws 54 barrel tuner even before his rubber tape tuning!!
IMGP0084.jpg


Even Todds Walther LGR and FWB-300 shot 240's

Paul
 
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