Adventures in Production Class

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19Turkeys

Member
Me: I am a 27 year competitive shooter with the International Handgun Metallic Silhouette Association (http://ihmsa.org), and enjoy the sport in all of its disciplines (Air Pistol, Small Bore, Big Bore, Field Pistol, Half Scale and One-Fifth Scale). Thus, I am not unfamiliar with firearms. However, I have not ever been interested in becoming a "paper puncher", and my only air rifle was a Red Ryder in my youth.

The Hook: I have always told my air rifle benchrest shooting friends that there was no way I was spending the big bucks to buy a FWB, EV2, etc and wrap up $3,000 in the equipment necessary to be competitive. I have always suspected that Ron Silveira was interested in sucking me into the game however. :D To that end, Ron pointed me to the thread that "Chris" had started here concerning a proposed Production class which limited the amount of money one could spend on equipment to $700 for the rifle, scope and rings. At one-fourth the cost mentioned above, I was immediately interested and willing to invest that amount to try the sport. Ron had set the hook.

Purpose: The purpose of this thread is to document my adventures in this new Production class. I do not intend to express opinions but document what I experience as I attempt to crawl up the learning curve with the help of Ron, Mike, and all the other more experienced shooters here at the Wild River club. My hope is that other new shooters that stumble onto this thread will find information that is useful to them and be able to ask questions and obtain answers that may encourage them to try the sport and help them climb the learning curve faster that I will. Also, ideas and helpful hints from the more experienced shooters are welcome.

My Expectations: First off, we must realize that the current products that fit into this class will not shoot a 250/25X. But, I do expect to be competitive within the Production discipline. I expect to become a better shooter, learn what my rifle likes and does not like and see improvement in my scores. My coach Ron expects me to shoot into the 700's consistently, and I have set that as a goal. We'll see just how far into the 700's I can climb.

The Goal: The goal of this thread is to (1) encourage other new shooters to enter this sport at a financial level that is reasonable. If you don't like it, you have not invested half your 401(k) in equipment and can dump it at not a great loss or have something to control varmints around your property or just shoot soup cans, and (2) document what I learn so I don't have to remember every little thing.

Steve W.
 
I shot my first match on February 8, 2012 and posted my experience over on the "Production" thread. I am copying it here for the continuity of this thread. The original post follows.

Today was it, my first match in the new Production class. I had acquired a Marauder, BSA 36x fixed power scope, and rings well under the $700 price cap. Ron was kind enough to help me with bag selection and even provided the sand and help to fill them. I had taken the rifle to Wacky Wayne's last Saturday and obtained some rudimentary sight settings (windy enough to blow my hat off I might add!). The match today was indoors; so, the wind factor was not an issue.

Honestly, I had no idea what to expect. I am a 26 year competitor in handgun silhouette, but a total novice with an air rifle. I was considering myself lucky to break into the 200's prior to the match beginning!

I learned quite a bit on my first card regarding holding the rifle, use of bags, etc and was thrilled with a 222 and 2X. Using what I had learned on the first card, my second card score improved to 240 and 6X. I decided to try Ron's Baracuda pellets on the third card which was a mistake. After thirteen targets I realized the rifle did not like them (-15 points and only 1X); so, I switched back to the Air Arms Field Target pellets for the last 12 and shot a -8 and 2X ending up with a 227 and 3X on the third card for a total of 689 and 11X.

Considering that the second card was a 240, I believe the Marauder can be competitive in the Production class.

My overall impression is that (1) I learned quite a bit, (2) I had a ton of fun, (3) I am looking forward to the next match, (4) I think I am going to like this Production class. It is great to be able to shoot with friends and not spend $3,000. In fact, I would not spend $3,000 even though I like my friends.

Thanks to Steve George for having the courage to open the sport up to those of us that would prefer to spend less on equipment. I look forward to many hours of enjoyable shooting.

Steve W.
 
Wacky Wayne Burns (no stranger to this forum I am sure) and the Ashland Air Rifle Range are not that far south of me, and Wayne runs a combination Field Target/Benchrest match every Saturday. I decided to take my Marauder down on February 11, 2012 and try outdoor benchrest. Obviously, shooting at 25 meters rather than 25 yards and adding wind to the equation would give me new challenges and opportunities to learn. Also, I had not yet settled on a pellet that the Marauder seemed to like; so, pellet testing would continue.

Given that this was my first outdoor match, I was not too disappointed with a 223/3X, 232/6X, and 220/4X for a total of 675/13X. This while I was still trying to discover the pellet that would give me better scores.

I at least had my first outdoor match under my belt. Hopefully, it is uphill from here!

Steve W.
 
Yesterday (February 15, 2012) was a practice day here at the Wild River Club. My intent was to continue pellet testing to try to determine the "secret pellet" the Marauder likes. I had a conversation with Coach Ron half way through the day concerning pellets. I recounted that I had tried Air Arms Diablo Field Heavy 4.52's, JSB Diablo Heavy 4.52's, Baracuda 4.52's, Kodiak Heavy 4.52's (Ron said they are the same as Baracuda, something I did not know), and just for fun JSB Diablo 8.44 grain 4.52's that I shoot in my IHMSA competition pistols. The results with the 8.44 grain pellets were not pretty as Ron had predicted. I then asked Ron if there were other pellets that I should try as I had looked at the myriad of pellets available on the Airguns of Arizona website. Ron said that those that I had tried were the pellets that the vast majority of benchrest shooters used. (Question: Anyone out there care to suggest any additional pellets they have had success with?)

Given my discussion with Ron and after analyzing the results of pellet testing, I have made the preliminary decision to run with the Air Arms Diablo Field Heavy 4.52 mm pellet. I acquired a tin from Wayne, and will see how it goes.

Bob Lahde was also at the match with his newly acquired .22 caliber Marauder and was doing pellet testing. He told me that he found that accuracy improved when he pulled the gun into the bags by pulling down on the fore end and pressing the rifle into his shoulder. I tried that, and it did seem to help.

Ron suggested that I shoot three cards to see what would happen. Again, the goal was to shoot into the 700's. Using Bob's technique and the Air Arms pellets, I fired a 239/5X, 227/2X, and 233/4X for a total of 699/11X. One point away from 700, but a 10 point improvement from my first match. No question that a 700+ is doable!

Ron suggested that a shoot a few groups after finishing the three cards while using a looser hold on the rifle. His thought was that the less one does the easier it is to repeat those steps consistently. I did, and shot 5 very respectable 3 shot groups. My conclusion? Using Bob's technique had seated the rifle into the bags well. Prior to that, I was just setting the rifle on the bags. Do we have a new workable technique here that (1) pushes the rifle into the bags then (2) uses a lighter hold? Several of us will reassemble at the range on February 20, and I will explore this concept.

Steve W.
 
Some folks have good results by seating the gun into the rear bag using a rubber or leather mallet. This DOES tend to dramatically change the elevation, so make sure to do it BEFORE getting the gun rough aimed and leveled. Once "tapped in" a few times, then slide the gun back and forth a bit to loosen it up, or it will tend to shoot lower and lower during sight-in. This trick seems more for those using mechanical rests.
 
We shoot springers, early 90's Beeman R1's in .20cal. So far the most accurate is a 13gr Predator Polymag. Better that any JSB. Probably like apples and oranges.
 
For a non-match fun shoot (bring what you want to shoot, pistols or rifles), we had a large turnout. Four Marauders on benches means the Production class is going to get some use this year. It was great to see and 'the more the merrier' definately proved fun. Thanks Steve, for starting this thread. I hope you keep documenting your progress and 'gold nuggets' of wisdom you discover.
Mike
 
While I felt that progress was made at the range last week, I was not totally satisfied that I was obtaining close to what I felt was good performance out of the rifle. Thus, several of us made a date to return to the range this morning.

After several groups that still were not satisfactory, I borrowed another shooter's "softer" rear bag, and things improved. Thus, Ron was kind enough to dump some sand out of my rear bag to soften it up a bit. We also put the front bag on a 4X6 piece of lumber and the rear bag on a 2X6. I then took LD's suggestion and firmly pressed the stock into the rear bag. This helped significantly. As a final bit of testing, I lightened up on the rifle, and it then started to shoot some reasonable groups.

I decided to shoot one more series of 11 three shot groups. If satisfied, I would then shoot a 25 shot card for score. I grabbed what I thought was a tin of Air Arms Diablo Field Heavy pellets and shot the 11 groups with a light hold and the stock firmly in the rear bag. Things started to look promising, and I shot the 25 shot card for score. Ron scored it a 239/2X. If I did that 2 more times, it would be a 717, and I would be in the 700's! I am feeling better about Wednesday's match.

Upon returning home, I took a closer look at the tin I fired the 239 with and discovered that I had not shot Field Heavy's, but rather Air Arms Diablo Field 8.4 grain pellets. Since the lighter ones performed best today, I will shoot Wednesday's match with them, but I will test the heavier pellets using the lighter hold on the rifle and mashing the stock into the rear bag to see if they group better than the lighter pellets. So, the quest goes on. At least I believe I have the proper hold and bag setup now thanks to LD's suggestion. More as I discover it!

Steve W.
 
And they thought Rimfire was the Dark Side. Steve look at your air tube, can you move it around a bit, if so see if you can dampen it down some so it does not vibrate at the shot. Harmonics/ vibration plays a bigger roll in air. That little pill is in the tube a long time in comparison to powder burners.
 
Blades,

I have made sure that the air tube is as tight as possible. However, the rules of Production do not allow any modifications to the rifle that are not outlined in the owner's manual. Thus, adding any dampening material would not be allowed. Once I have settled on a pellet I will attempt some tuning per the owner's manual to see if that makes any difference. Right now, it is as set from the factory and is running 850 fps with 10.34 grain pellets.

Steve W.
 
I admire your "sticktuitiveness" in the quest for a competitive rifle, in... your choice of sport, at the price level that you are comfortable with! Many, including myself....cannot wait to get rid of that first gun and breaking into the kid's piggy bank at the same time in order to buy that new custom, very race ready rifle to short circuit the learning process thus achieving instant gratification at the rewards table...only to find out that the "arrow" is only half of the equation or less, obviously...the "indian" being the other portion. I hope that you stick with it and learn to really love the shooting sports.
Gee...what a runon sentence! :)
Mark

"a warm fuzzy is only warm and fuzzy when awarded to you by your peers" Quote from Maslow.
 
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My second official match and quest for a 700+ score was today. Long story short, it was close but no cigar! :( As stated above, I decided to shoot the Air Arms Diabolo 8.4 grain pellets today. The first 2 cards were 236/5X and 234/4X, pretty darned consistent and another score like that would give me the 700+ I am striving for. But, things crumbled in front of my eyes as I had 3 pellets that went astray for some unknown reason, and I ended up with a 228/2X for a total of 698/11X. But, the good news is that this is a 9 point improvement over my first match!

I have concluded that I may not have found the Holy Grail of pellets for the Marauder yet. After the match I fired 5 five shot groups with the Air Arms Diabolo Field Heavy pellets, and all groups were pretty darned tight with the exception of one. Thus, I am going to order 4 tins of these guys for additional testing. To date, I have at least settled on the Air Arms Diabolo Field pellets. Now, it is just a question of light or heavy pellet. I'm thinking the heavies will prove out the best.

Mark, as an English major I got a chuckle out of your run on sentence! :) And, I know what you mean about the spendy guns. I have done that several times in IHMSA competition, and I enjoy shooting them immensely!

More as the journey continues toward that elusive 700+.

Steve W.
 
Not sure how powerful your gun is, but I found my Marauder shoots pretty smooth and consistent at around 12fpe. When at this low level, my gun shoots the midweight (8-8.4), and even the lightweight pellets (7.3-7.9) decent. My gun is also stock, and I'm not done figuring out exgzackly which pellets it does best with.

As to "stock", in my opinion, a very mild bedding, such as with playing cards, inner tube rubber, tape, etc. shouldnt really knock you out of the game. I haven't bothered with this, but I have seen some precharged guns respond to simple bedding tricks.

Fortunately, the Marauder is very adjustable with respect to trigger, striker, transfer flow etc. These adjustments can often make nice improvement in consistency over the charge and general pleasant shooting.
 
Hi LD,

My gun is running at 16.5 FPE. Once I decide on a pellet I will be playing with all the allowable adjustments to see if I can get it to shoot better.

Steve W.
 
Steve,

I'm noticing that your 25m outdoor scores at my place are not that far from your 25 yard indoor scores... That tells me you are bumping up against the accuracy limit for you gun... as it is... with the pellets you've found best so far.... Also, supporting that idea, are the other scores from "out of the box" Marauders.... So, my friend.. don't feel bad about your shooting ability as a newbie to benchrest.. you be doing great!

Wacky Wayne,
Match Director,
Ashland Air Rifle Range
 
Steve,

Before you believe that there is a glass ceiling to your rifle, play a little with technique.

Pellet choice is critical but there may also be a sweet spot to the velocity for even your best pellet.

Also, rifles may show a sweet spot in bag placement. Many suggested my USFT would shoot best pushed far forward, it never did. I struggled with that bit of wisdom for quite some time. Placement in the rear bag can show some differences.

Only when you truly learn your rifle, will you know if there is anything to squeeze out.
 
cris said:
Only when you truly learn your rifle, will you know if there is anything to squeeze out.
Click to expand...

Hi Steve,

Thanks for the ideas! Playing with bag position was not something that I had put into the equation, but it is there now! Next Wednesday is a play day, "shoot what you brung", and I plan to do some serious testing with Air Arms Diabolo Field & Diabolo Field Heavy to see which of these works best. If that is determined, then I'll begin tuning it and as you suggested playing with bag position.

I greatly appreciate all the positive input from everyone on the forum.

The journey to discovery has just begun, but the adventure is indeed in the journey!

Steve W.
 
Steve,

I think my comment might have been misunderstood... I'm not saying there is a glass ceiling on your marauder. I'm suggesting that the out of the box Marauder, seems to have limit of about 700 score for three cards... based on the testing so far. Our club members report that the transfer port on the ones we looked at so far have burrs which damage pellet skirts... which produce flyers that "fly" further into low point land. Lead fowling can do this also to otherwise wonderful barrels.

I guess "Production" Class won't allow one to clean up that burr, since it's not in the "Owners instructions". I believe the Marauder can shoot in 740s... and why not 750 with a reg and super barrel, (some crosman barrels seem great too after the deburring) the trigger can really get great with adjustments only, plenty of very stable shots with a reg, 750 seems all very possible.. Mark and Bob are working on that project now. So is Dan Brown.. and others I'm sure.. the gun has promise!

Bottom line I'm saying is: For a newbie to benchrest, with an out of the box Marauder... you're doing super! Keep up the quest! But keep in mind that searching for the best pellet and or technique, really can't begin until you quit damaging the pellets before they get a chance to preform... maybe

Wacky Wayne
 
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