Accurize a balance beam scale?

my point was that his description was great, but most will casually miss the statement he made.
he inferes the beam scale will indicate any grain of powder put in the scale...it just aint so...his cavet was"perfect".
they are not perfect.....the ratio of mass of the beam to a single grain of oem 8208 coupled with the resistance to change, that it( a typical reloading beam scale) will infact NOT indicate a single grain change of oem8208.....
a single grain of h4831 maybe...
he put forth a great idea...but the world is not perfect, so his statement has no bearing in the real world.
go read my opening statement on this thread.
simple
it is about perspective......

mike in co
 
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DSM.....
you never posted what powder/s you are using, please do so...it will allow us to move on....we are going in circles at this time.

mike in co
 
frwillia said:
The damper works because it is a conductor of electricity being moved through a magnetic field. When the conductor moves in the magnetic field of the damper magnet it generates internal currents that flow within the piece of copper and are dissipated in the coppers internal resistance as heat energy - i.e. it warms up the piece of copper. Fitch
Click to expand...

Yep.........Faraday's Law of Induction. :) -Al
 
frwillia said:
Jackie,

I have a Charge Master and I definitely agree, +/- 0.1 is being generous. I use mine to pre-throw charges because it's so fast to set it up. I dump the results on my 10-10 and trickle to weight. I'm seldom waiting for the CM.

The CM does best with the spherical powders, which are the same ones that work great in a measure, so it works best where it's least needed. I'd really like it if it worked well with 4350 or 7828, but it's not good with them at all - they clump and dump giving more like +/- 0.2 or 0.3.

The 10-10 is repeatable enough for my hunting ammo. I try to reduce "accuracy" (hitting a specific charge weight) as a variable by setting it up using check weights to set the pointer at the nearest 0.5g to the charge weight I'm going to be weighing, then adjusting the vernier to the actual weight. I've had the 10-10 for at least 2, maybe 3 , decades, it damps really quickly, and is much more repeatable than the Redding Scale I have.

I'd buy one of those rather expensive digital scales but I don't think it would let me shoot any better than I do now. Power charge accuracy isn't the tall pole in my accuracy tent.

Fitch
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I am in my 12th year of IBS SCORE Competition. Over those years I have seen scores constantly go up in the VFS side of things. I have also seen more and more people weighing their charges be it either in pre-loads or Vials of powder pre-weighed.

I have read here that more and more people are taking Electronic Scales and using them at Group Shoots. Group sizes seem to have decreased in size as well; just from casual observation.

There is a lot of luck involved in sports, including this one. One may be lucky most of the time by haphazard practices but giving one's best to an effort can't be beat, long term. It is not possible to make Ammo that is too good and it is not possible to keep a rifle in too good a shape either.

I guess it pretty much comes down to how much time does one want to put into their effort to win. If throwing charges and seating bullet haphazrdly is good enough then so be it. It isn't all about winning.
 
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Here is something you might get some enjoyment from.
Someone elses words. Not mine. Copy from another forum. Kenny--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gunpowder "burns" by volume. Not weight. Weight is only used because it is easily interpreted and most folks can undertsand it.

A few years ago I did exhaustive tests on the subject for an article that I neveer finished writing. In every test, volume was more accurate than weight.

BUT......You need a good powder measure and a perfect cadance to get the poder to drop consistantly. For most folks, they will have more "consistancy" by weight.
 
sicero said:
Here is something you might get some enjoyment from.
Someone elses words. Not mine. Copy from another forum. Kenny--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Gunpowder "burns" by volume. Not weight. Weight is only used because it is easily interpreted and most folks can undertsand it.

A few years ago I did exhaustive tests on the subject for an article that I neveer finished writing. In every test, volume was more accurate than weight.

BUT......You need a good powder measure and a perfect cadance to get the poder to drop consistantly. For most folks, they will have more "consistancy" by weight.
Click to expand...

my own theory on this resides with stick powders primarily. powder may burn by volume, but it is very difficult due to the shape of the powder to get it to measure out by volume consistantly, where as going by weight you can be more consistant. the only way i can figure to measure powder by volume would be to figure out some way to measure how much it displaces, and i dont see that as being practical.
 
the probelm with this theroy is that it 100% contrary to all commercial/comsumer published data.
powder we buy is spec'd to perform the same for a given WEIGHT.
if one takes two significantly different lots of powder X, you often discover thast to get to the same weight of lot A, you need more or less VOLUME of lot B, but both give the same performance.
second...there are mo good powder measure that work with all powders. we here on teh bechrest forum have tested several of the best powder measures with typical br powders and the results are not "good"......n133 thru a harrells with experienced br shooters throws plus or minus 0.02 with some .03's.

you may have found some powders that are close to what you claim...but it is not true across the board for all consumer powders.

mike in co
 
Here is my question how do i make the magnets weaker. Can i sand them down so they are farther apart? Can i cover them with some material without interfering with the beam? If i remove them do i screw up the scale?
I have a parker tuned scale and it still (sometimes) gives me fits. The beam freezes in place either high or low until I bump it so i am trying to figure out a way to lighten the magnetic field so the beam is more responsive

Thanks
Trevor
 
I don't think that your magnets are your problem. When the beam freezes, give it a real good looking over to see if you can spot any points of interference. The magnets only make the eddy currents that damp the beam when it is moving.There is no force exerted by them when it is not moving, and the force is in proportion to its speed.
 
lightening the field will just cause more cycles up and down...undampened scales cycle a lot before settling down.
i would be looking at various pivot points as has been mentioned by others..........
when is this "freeze"...is this while trickling or in normal settling ??
mike in co
 
back when weighing powder started to become popular a scientist stated on here that fuel produced BTU's according to it's given weight. Sounded true enough to me.
 
i think it is mostly true, BUT in smokelss powder the release of energy is controlled by burn rate, which is related to shape, size and coating.

mike in co
Pete Wass said:
back when weighing powder started to become popular a scientist stated on here that fuel produced BTU's according to it's given weight. Sounded true enough to me.
Click to expand...
 
ok , for long range, the varget and rl15 "should" work well on an upgraded beam scale with good technique.

what you using the 8208 for ?? and is it imr 8208, oem 8208 or some of the later pulldown stuff ??
mike in co

DSM said:
Thanks for the good info on scale tuning.

Mike, I mainly use R15, 8208 and Varget.
Click to expand...
 
mike in co said:
lightening the field will just cause more cycles up and down...undampened scales cycle a lot before settling down.
i would be looking at various pivot points as has been mentioned by others..........
when is this "freeze"...is this while trickling or in normal settling ??
mike in co
Click to expand...

The pan freezes at various points sometimes it will not move even after removing and replacing the pan with a charge of powder other times it will stall near the middle and finally at the top when I initially place the pan on the scale.

Trevor
 
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