if the format is "place and advance," do you advance in both group & score, or just the one you placed in? What if you placed in both?
Pass everybody who placed in either? You could have more than 60 shooters advancing, which would raise the number of relays, which wouldn't fit into a day of shooting. Pass the top three in each, which could result in less than 60 shooters?
Any of these systems would take a lot of work to implement. Then too, shift changes will take time and paperwork needs to be produced before every one. Something dynamic like this would mean that you can't pre-prepare the paperwork like I've done at the World Open for the last few years. Be sure to add that paperwork time in between every shift of relays. (Actually Matt did the paperwork this year). Having that paperwork done ahead of time takes a lot of stress off the people running the matches and saves tons of time. When you're already on edge it doesn't take much to really frustrate the folks running the match, be it in the pits, in the rangemasters stand, or folks on the benches. That has to be considered.
I wasn't even at the WO this year and was still asked by several people how late they'd be getting out of there. How long would it take to score. The results have to be ready quickly to get people on their way home at a reasonable hour.
Next thing to consider, you HAVE to have a system where the average person can just look at results and replicate the standings on their own. They need to be able to see that this person shot x y and z, and they shot a b and c, and that x y and z really did beat a b and c. If they can't do that, (Like the system out west where the relay placement counts vs what you shot) then I guarantee you some people going to suspect they have been shorted. Furthermore, if the system is so complicated they very well may have. It's a recipe for disaster. That at least is not a problem with the win and continue system but there are others. Even with the win and continue system, you can still get a stacked relay, shoot well but be eliminated.
As far as people leaving, (with a 2- 3- or even 4-target format), what do you think happens to people who drive a long way, spend a lot of money, and who, day 1, catch a bad relay? Some of us don't drink.
That's ok Charles, I drank enough for both of us!
In all seriousness though, when I think of my own experiences at various venues, I've had more than my share of ugly relays, but it didn't disuade my desire to go back and try again and I still enjoyed myself shooting the next targets and seeing how well things might have been. I've always sorta figured that the whole thing is what relays you get, cause there's good guns in every one of em. Guns certainly capable of winning if they get any sort of luck with the weather. It's tough to beat someone who manages to get two good relays and it really doesn't bother me most of the time. Fact is, it's sorta nice seeing that happen to folks who might have a gun that's not always up to the task but can crank one now and again. It can put a pretty big smile on someones face that they shot well at the right time. It's still a very legit win, and more power to em I say. I've been there and done that myself and can tell ya it's a lot of fun.
I figure that here at PA, there's usually about 3 good relays in a day, all the rest you have to really work for. Well, if you figure that this year they shot 26 relays in a day, that's not very good odds for bein in those 3. I've won relays in the wo with 11 and 13 inch groups and 70s scores, some by a pretty good margin. I can tell ya first hand that 11, 13, 25, 30, pretty much it's all the same thing. Folks won't even help carry yer crap to the car. G-bye, thanks for the check! Cya next year! It's all part of the game and we've all been there. If you know anybody who hain't had a bad relay yet, send em to pa for the wo! Middle of July with relays beginning at 1:00pm. Ehupp, we'll see.
All in all, I think the couple3 nationals and wo's I've been to have all been about as much fun as a guy oughta have, win loose or draw. The scoring is fair even if mother nature isn't. Me? I'd prefer em to be mad at mother nature. Most of all, not one time have I ever gone home, looked at the results and said to myself, "I shoulda beat that guy there" when I finished behind em. It's real simple, that guy shot smaller'n I did and that's that.
I am still allowed to complain about my relays, and regularly do!
ps. Thinking about how to advance, you could ask before hand (at registration) if the person wanted to advance in group or score then. That, if they won both, which way would they like to proceed. You could not give a choice at a later time cause there is no time to go around asking. You need paperwork. It might be fun, but I don't think this is a match format for the Nats or WO. These events are just too large for that sort of risk taking. Perhaps a match like that at another venue would be fun, but it would be a LOT of work for somebody.
On that note, If you know any good programmers who are looking for a career change or second job that doesn't pay squat, tell em to call the personell office at the PA club cause they're likely to have an opening right directly.
Like about the time somebody proposes this up there!
