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abintx
Guest
I've noticed a slow downward spiraling of benchrest.com for a few years now. It's not what it used to be. What is this site doing, or not doing, that has good people stepping away from it? What's the root cause? 
Stopped in the fog tonight so I have time. I think it just reflects society in general. People argue more about everything than ever. I would think your readership or whatever you call it is probably up. Maybe? Some of the people that don't need this site probably see things differently than the ones still learning like me do. I read and learn and get ideas from here in a month than it would take years without it. The best days of this country have passed. It will stay about like it is for some time yet. Find a way to be happy and enjoy life and family. Did I mention thankyou Wilbur.
Boyd Allen
Active member
We came through a depression. We came through WWII. Our problems today are small potatoes. We are doing well enough to have too much time on our hands, so we sit and invent problems to worry about. Live, love, have fun, do the best that you can, and stop worrying about the little ups and downs. We are very lucky, but often not smart enough to realize it. This site is about a sport that is aging out. It is not a disaster, it is the normal way of things. Go to a public range. Look around, think about what it was like 30 years ago. If we want to preserve what we know, we all need to find someone that is bright, and who is at the point where he might be ready to stop buying his ammo, and teach him how to reload, or perhaps someone who has rudimentary reloading down, who seems to have the itch to make his rifles shoot better than they are. Find a range that needs fixing up, and organize some shooters and do it, and while you are at it, have some fun. Benchrest exists as part of a much larger shooting community, and there has been a generational disconnect that it is not too late to fix, but we won't do that playing with our toys, and preaching to the converted. We will now sing "Rock of Ages" while the collection plate is passed. ;-)
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
IMO, one major cause is these keyboard shooters who will not use their real name. For any of them to have credibility with me I need to know who they are. If I can see their name in some match reports, it means they are benchrest shooters. They can be on the bottom or the top and still have credibility and still have something to offer. One of the best benchrest respected shooters I know stays near the bottom. He has been shooting probably longer than CCBW and a lot longer than myself.
CCBW knows who I am talking about. Why is he not on this forum? Probably doesn't have the time since he is still a practicing surgeon. Colorado Joe or Mickey Mouse? No!! If they are benchrest shooters and can show proof then they just might be worth listening to.
Why are many of the known top shooters not here. What could they expect to learn from Mickey Mouse or Pecos Johnnyhouse?
CCBW knows who I am talking about. Why is he not on this forum? Probably doesn't have the time since he is still a practicing surgeon. Colorado Joe or Mickey Mouse? No!! If they are benchrest shooters and can show proof then they just might be worth listening to.
Why are many of the known top shooters not here. What could they expect to learn from Mickey Mouse or Pecos Johnnyhouse?
Lee Martin
Active member
I've noticed that some people don't realize to whom they are speaking in a thread, when this person is an expert in the field. This ignorant (to the facts, not necessarily "ignorant") poster then goes off on a tirade that they know better than this expert. This angers and insults the expert to the point that they throw up their hands and leave. Sound familiar?
I think this as much as anything contributes to the "downward spiral" as well as a loss of knowledge sharing.
Pat
I think this as much as anything contributes to the "downward spiral" as well as a loss of knowledge sharing.
Pat
Pete Wass
Well-known member
I think it's because of the State of the Art
There isn't much new in the way of shooting benchrest. Most things are pretty close to perfected and the knowledge to get all of it there has pretty much been shared. It is not unlike the state of our society. We need good middle income jobs but nobody knows how to create them. We need to shoot more zero groups or 250-25's but nobody is able to wring that last little bit of accuracy out very often. We are in a purgatory sort of place I think but then I'm officially old so what do I know?
Pete
There isn't much new in the way of shooting benchrest. Most things are pretty close to perfected and the knowledge to get all of it there has pretty much been shared. It is not unlike the state of our society. We need good middle income jobs but nobody knows how to create them. We need to shoot more zero groups or 250-25's but nobody is able to wring that last little bit of accuracy out very often. We are in a purgatory sort of place I think but then I'm officially old so what do I know?
Pete
Bill Wynne
Active member
Compared to what?
I am not as active on Benchrest.com as I once was but I still read threads on it and I enjoy it.
I enjoy the humor and the hints. I sometimes have trouble finding the "wisdom" that in mentioned but there are some nuggets of information and some funny things said from time to time, not to mention, some great pictures. All in all, I find quite a bit of enjoyment in reading here. Like hunting, this is not at all a waste of time.
It brings a lot of like minded people together and keeps us off the streets.
Concho Bill
I am not as active on Benchrest.com as I once was but I still read threads on it and I enjoy it.
I enjoy the humor and the hints. I sometimes have trouble finding the "wisdom" that in mentioned but there are some nuggets of information and some funny things said from time to time, not to mention, some great pictures. All in all, I find quite a bit of enjoyment in reading here. Like hunting, this is not at all a waste of time.
It brings a lot of like minded people together and keeps us off the streets.
Concho Bill
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Jerry what is ccbw?
Hunter
Chasin' the Sunset
I was reading Boyd's post about helping young shooters get started reloading. Our club helps our county's 4-H shooting sports program. I offered to have reloading equipment and components donated and having classes to get the kids into reloading. I am in Indiana and Purdue is in charge of all statewide 4-H programs and I was told that the kids could not be taught reloading or shoot reloaded ammo in 4-H. Don't know if it's liability or the same reason they can't shoot varmint targets. Things are changing!!
T
tcjones
Guest
I honestly see this site as the most useful to a new shooter like myself. Not to loud , not to rude , and just enough argument to keep thing interesting at times.
Wilbur, Thank you. This site has hooked me up with people that have shared information with me out of the kindness of they're heart and shared they're time they didn't
have to. The way some of you talk about keyboard shooters and the real pros stay away, I'm thinking somebody has thin skin or want more attention for the me.
Sorry but that's what I'm seeing. If you don't what to share or join, well probably things will still work out, just in a different way.
A big THANK YOU to the ones that post out and share.
Happy Thanksgiving, Real name Tom Jones
Wilbur, Thank you. This site has hooked me up with people that have shared information with me out of the kindness of they're heart and shared they're time they didn't
have to. The way some of you talk about keyboard shooters and the real pros stay away, I'm thinking somebody has thin skin or want more attention for the me.
Sorry but that's what I'm seeing. If you don't what to share or join, well probably things will still work out, just in a different way.
A big THANK YOU to the ones that post out and share.
Happy Thanksgiving, Real name Tom Jones
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dixieppc
Guest
Happy Thanksgiving to you also and I loved your last Album.....
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
CCBW=Chief Cook and Bottle Washer. Our exhaled leader and tireless and thankless worker who keeps this forum going.
CCBW= Wilbur Harris, a very long time benchrest shooter from the 1970's or therbouts.
CCBW=One who onetime stored his benchrest rifle bolt in the center depository of a PortaJon.....sorry buddy.
CCBW=A man, in addition to being a computer wizard in keeping this site up and running, along with help from his son Elmer, is also a nuclear fission process operations and safety writer.
Uthink Uknow
New member
Wasn't it also Speedy Gonzales who did the aforementioned bolt drop at Super Shoot?
Jerry I hope you don't need my whole name. But I have been Shooting 1000 yard competition for 42 years. The way I see it is the older guys are all dead, I've lost a lot of knowledgeable friends and I myself had a scare last month. We hold a shooting school at our club each year and get a few shooters each year. But it seems we are all getting old and tired. My reloading has got to the point where its even burns me out. and I'm what you would call hard core! And when I shoot a match and get beat by two of my students, I say Joe you got them hooked!
Isn't Joe Salt easier?
Joe Saltalamachia
Isn't Joe Salt easier?
Joe Saltalamachia
First off, I want to say I like this forum. Thank you to Wilbur for his efforts. I know enough about web sites to know that this site is a child that needs constant attention. Over the years that I have been on BR.com, I have made friends, learned things I would not have had contact with anywhere else and had many of my own stupid questions and ideas dealt with. The knowledge base on this forum is immense and focused on competitive BR shooting -- a valuable asset.
Having been born during WWII, I have lived though the best 50 years America ever experienced. Following the war, we built the greatest industrialized nation in the history of the world: people had good jobs, almost all with benefits; companies were successful, made money, and took us into a technological world never before seen; and investors made money. The system worked, as it never had before and probably never will again. Those of us who grew up, got educated, worked and lived in that America, my generation built it, exploited it, and threw it all away. In the Sixties we introduced "free love" and "I'm OK, you're OK" into a society that believed itself to be indomitable. We weren't. For some reason I still am not sure I grasp, American culture took the path of least resistance and through the '70s and '80s developed generations who totally eradicated the value system and proven mores that had built the greatness of America.
People educated in the '70s, 80s, 90s, and present Y2K+ have no idea of the world I grew up in. We don't teach morals. We don't teach wars. We don't teach proper history. We don't teach real thinking and creativity because it's all done with a video game or computer. Just as an aside, when you read a book and it has, "The sky was blue and sun was shining", you brain has to create the image of what those words say and that is a very creative process. If you just look at a scene on an electronic game or TV, your brain never has to think, it just processes the information.
I say all that to say this: Young people today, and I'm not pointing any fingers, do not live in the same world I do. When I wanted to reload, I bought manuals, read them, developed a plan for test loads, went to the range and learned what did and didn't work. That process was an investment into an education that is irreplaceable. Today, young shooters just pop onto the forum and ask "who has the best load for xyz caliber?" The world has changed. Our society has changed in a manner that baffles me. The use of this forum is just a microcosm of our society.
After running and supporting our matches for 10 years and shooting sporadically, this season was the first time I could actually compete. To prepare for that, I started going to the range on the "bad" days. If the wind was whistling, I would load up a go shoot for a couple hours, trying to wrap my mind around what those pesky wind flags were trying to tell. That, and actually competing, taught me more than anything I knew before. It is the only process that works.
Today's young/new shooters are products of our instant society and want to buy whatever it takes to win right now. Lots of people can buy Dale Earnhardt's race car but very few can drive it competitively. Same in our game. Having the same barrel/action/scope or load as the match winner doesn't mean we possess his skills. A good barrel certainly makes a big difference but if you sit beside some of the great shooters and see what they can do when the wind blows, the rain falls, or the mirage swirls you quickly understand it has little to do with the brand names.
The answer to Wilbur's question (What do you think is the cause?) is really just that we as a society have changed. It's the dinosaurs (most of us) against the young knights. They seldom think like I think because they don't have the background or foundation that I have. I don't think like they do because I don't understand their world or value system. The times are changing ...
Reed G.
Having been born during WWII, I have lived though the best 50 years America ever experienced. Following the war, we built the greatest industrialized nation in the history of the world: people had good jobs, almost all with benefits; companies were successful, made money, and took us into a technological world never before seen; and investors made money. The system worked, as it never had before and probably never will again. Those of us who grew up, got educated, worked and lived in that America, my generation built it, exploited it, and threw it all away. In the Sixties we introduced "free love" and "I'm OK, you're OK" into a society that believed itself to be indomitable. We weren't. For some reason I still am not sure I grasp, American culture took the path of least resistance and through the '70s and '80s developed generations who totally eradicated the value system and proven mores that had built the greatness of America.
People educated in the '70s, 80s, 90s, and present Y2K+ have no idea of the world I grew up in. We don't teach morals. We don't teach wars. We don't teach proper history. We don't teach real thinking and creativity because it's all done with a video game or computer. Just as an aside, when you read a book and it has, "The sky was blue and sun was shining", you brain has to create the image of what those words say and that is a very creative process. If you just look at a scene on an electronic game or TV, your brain never has to think, it just processes the information.
I say all that to say this: Young people today, and I'm not pointing any fingers, do not live in the same world I do. When I wanted to reload, I bought manuals, read them, developed a plan for test loads, went to the range and learned what did and didn't work. That process was an investment into an education that is irreplaceable. Today, young shooters just pop onto the forum and ask "who has the best load for xyz caliber?" The world has changed. Our society has changed in a manner that baffles me. The use of this forum is just a microcosm of our society.
After running and supporting our matches for 10 years and shooting sporadically, this season was the first time I could actually compete. To prepare for that, I started going to the range on the "bad" days. If the wind was whistling, I would load up a go shoot for a couple hours, trying to wrap my mind around what those pesky wind flags were trying to tell. That, and actually competing, taught me more than anything I knew before. It is the only process that works.
Today's young/new shooters are products of our instant society and want to buy whatever it takes to win right now. Lots of people can buy Dale Earnhardt's race car but very few can drive it competitively. Same in our game. Having the same barrel/action/scope or load as the match winner doesn't mean we possess his skills. A good barrel certainly makes a big difference but if you sit beside some of the great shooters and see what they can do when the wind blows, the rain falls, or the mirage swirls you quickly understand it has little to do with the brand names.
The answer to Wilbur's question (What do you think is the cause?) is really just that we as a society have changed. It's the dinosaurs (most of us) against the young knights. They seldom think like I think because they don't have the background or foundation that I have. I don't think like they do because I don't understand their world or value system. The times are changing ...
Reed G.
A
abintx
Guest
Speculating. Personal disagreements with the Head Honcho? Lack of leadership? Folks disgusted with the lack of civility amongst responders? Too many people who insinuate ownership of the site based on longevity of their use? People who have gone off to do other things they feel might be more productive in their lives? For some knowledgeable individuals, tired of responding to the same questions over and over? Failing health? etcetera
What does your research show?
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