8208 brx, not there yet
- Thread starter jackie schmidt
- Start date
jackie schmidt
New member
Donald
I have burned up about 3 pounds of it so far, and the more I shoot it, the less I like it..
So much that I will shoot 133 at the Crawfish this coming week end.
Here is an example. Two week ends ago, it got up in the 80's, and I shot some really decent groups. We were shooting 31.8 grns.
Last Saturday morning, I decided to pretend it was the first group of The Crawfish. I loaded up 10 rounds with that load, went to the line just like it was match day. Guess what. .300+ of verticle.
It was about 72 degrees. For the stuff to change that much leaves me a tad bewildered.
Another thing. I was sent a one pound jug of the XBR to test, and shot some really nice groups. The 96 pounds that I bought is at LEAST 1 grn slower than that initial can. You should see the ball of fire that comes out of the barrel whern you shoot this stuff a dusk.
Like I have been saying. It needs to get to 90 degrees.............jackie
I have burned up about 3 pounds of it so far, and the more I shoot it, the less I like it..
So much that I will shoot 133 at the Crawfish this coming week end.
Here is an example. Two week ends ago, it got up in the 80's, and I shot some really decent groups. We were shooting 31.8 grns.
Last Saturday morning, I decided to pretend it was the first group of The Crawfish. I loaded up 10 rounds with that load, went to the line just like it was match day. Guess what. .300+ of verticle.
It was about 72 degrees. For the stuff to change that much leaves me a tad bewildered.
Another thing. I was sent a one pound jug of the XBR to test, and shot some really nice groups. The 96 pounds that I bought is at LEAST 1 grn slower than that initial can. You should see the ball of fire that comes out of the barrel whern you shoot this stuff a dusk.
Like I have been saying. It needs to get to 90 degrees.............jackie
goodgrouper
tryingtobeabettergrouper
I've had XBR shoot great in four barrels now. Last Saturday, I even saw it resurrect a Bartlien gain twist barrel that had been thrown in the heap of "bad ideas" never to return to the range.
As with any powder, once you go above the upper "sweet spot", they tend to get mighty fussy and produce vertical in varying temps. This should be an indicator to "back 'er down". Also, I have noticed that it has a slow enough pressure curve that sufficient neck tension is key. And like James Mock, I have found it to shoot best with bullets not stuffed into the riflings although some have had luck with it jamming.
I never had a problem tuning N133, but I would say that XBR has thus far been even easier to tune and keep in tune. You just have to be brave enough to shoot it at sub 70,000 PSI levels!
As with any powder, once you go above the upper "sweet spot", they tend to get mighty fussy and produce vertical in varying temps. This should be an indicator to "back 'er down". Also, I have noticed that it has a slow enough pressure curve that sufficient neck tension is key. And like James Mock, I have found it to shoot best with bullets not stuffed into the riflings although some have had luck with it jamming.
I never had a problem tuning N133, but I would say that XBR has thus far been even easier to tune and keep in tune. You just have to be brave enough to shoot it at sub 70,000 PSI levels!
jackie schmidt
New member
Goodgrouper
The 31.1 load will shoot a good group, and back it up with a big mess.
I might try drilling out the flash holes to about .070. That is how Larry Bagget makes 4895 shoot in a 6PPC.
I plan on taking off Friday and heading upto Tomball to practice for the Crawfish. The weatherman says mid 80's. If it gets up there, I will see what it will do down in the 30.1 grn range. That will be about 3250 fps out of my Sporter......jackie
The 31.1 load will shoot a good group, and back it up with a big mess.
I might try drilling out the flash holes to about .070. That is how Larry Bagget makes 4895 shoot in a 6PPC.
I plan on taking off Friday and heading upto Tomball to practice for the Crawfish. The weatherman says mid 80's. If it gets up there, I will see what it will do down in the 30.1 grn range. That will be about 3250 fps out of my Sporter......jackie
First impressions
I shot some xbr last Sunday for the first time and I would agree with most everybodys tune evaluation so far.I still need to run it through my entire program before I conclude whether it is useful or not. However,some disturbing personality traits were immediately apparent( to me anyway).
First, was the "plasmic blast" out the end of the barrel( "did I forget to patch out the barrel ?", nope ,it's the powder).Secondly, was when cleaning,things seemed normal until the patch out of the cleaned barrel and that felt "sticky" but only in one spot,not the usual 6" chatter one gets with a carbon issue.Now for the real indication of "funky uselessness"( look that one up). Once I got it working in an honest and reliable fashion it would perform as long as I kept shooting.On a few occasions I would drill three or four in a hole at 100 yds,the condition would change and I would stop and wait( maybe a minute),the same recognizable condition would return and I would pull the trigger and that shot would "spit to hell",the following shot would go back into the group. I think there is some fouling set up issue with this stuff.
I have commented on this before,but it would be nice if someone from the powder manufacturers would step forward and say " Well here's what we set out to accomplish,here's what actually happened at the factory,and here's what we did for damage control,which is why you're experiencing what you are". That is unlikely to happen so all we can do is guess. My guess is that the powder run occured ,the burn rate wasn't quite right and they coated the hell out of it with whatever to adjust the burn rate,leaving us with this sticky plastic fouling issue and "plasmic blast". But then," what do I know ?", I'm just some DA carpenter.
If someone with real knowledge( like a powder chemist or management personel from the powder company) would step forward and correct my misguided assumptions,I would take my deserving lumps and pipe down but I don't see that happening either,just criticism from the peanut gallery.Have at it boys !
Joel
I shot some xbr last Sunday for the first time and I would agree with most everybodys tune evaluation so far.I still need to run it through my entire program before I conclude whether it is useful or not. However,some disturbing personality traits were immediately apparent( to me anyway).
First, was the "plasmic blast" out the end of the barrel( "did I forget to patch out the barrel ?", nope ,it's the powder).Secondly, was when cleaning,things seemed normal until the patch out of the cleaned barrel and that felt "sticky" but only in one spot,not the usual 6" chatter one gets with a carbon issue.Now for the real indication of "funky uselessness"( look that one up). Once I got it working in an honest and reliable fashion it would perform as long as I kept shooting.On a few occasions I would drill three or four in a hole at 100 yds,the condition would change and I would stop and wait( maybe a minute),the same recognizable condition would return and I would pull the trigger and that shot would "spit to hell",the following shot would go back into the group. I think there is some fouling set up issue with this stuff.
I have commented on this before,but it would be nice if someone from the powder manufacturers would step forward and say " Well here's what we set out to accomplish,here's what actually happened at the factory,and here's what we did for damage control,which is why you're experiencing what you are". That is unlikely to happen so all we can do is guess. My guess is that the powder run occured ,the burn rate wasn't quite right and they coated the hell out of it with whatever to adjust the burn rate,leaving us with this sticky plastic fouling issue and "plasmic blast". But then," what do I know ?", I'm just some DA carpenter.
If someone with real knowledge( like a powder chemist or management personel from the powder company) would step forward and correct my misguided assumptions,I would take my deserving lumps and pipe down but I don't see that happening either,just criticism from the peanut gallery.Have at it boys !
Joel
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Imr8208xbr...
I would like to hear comments and/or suggestions from not only the powder manufacturer but also from people like Lou Murdica and Jim Carmichael. These people have used XBR ALOT and could shed some useful light on this subject. Any help would certainly be appreciated. Thanks to all who contribute.
gpoldblue
I would like to hear comments and/or suggestions from not only the powder manufacturer but also from people like Lou Murdica and Jim Carmichael. These people have used XBR ALOT and could shed some useful light on this subject. Any help would certainly be appreciated. Thanks to all who contribute.
gpoldblue
goodgrouper
tryingtobeabettergrouper
My bet is you'll be happy with the results. 30.6 grains has hummed for me many times in several barrels.
Good luck!
JerrySharrett
Senile Member
Guys and gals, keep in mind this new powder is not the ultimate solution, it is merely an alternative. Use it where and how and when appropriate. Like most of the newer technologies, gain twist, double ogive, etc., it is just an alternative.
J
jo191145
Guest
Jackie, Have you had a chance to do more work with your XBR loads?
As I recall my results were similar to yours this winter.
I found a huge node between 31.3- 31.9 that looked very promising in cold weather. Sweet spot seemed to be 3440fps.
Just pulled the ppc out now that the weather hit 70. Once again my results mimick yours somewhat, but worse. I dropped a little lower and started at 31.0.
First four foulers at 31.0 grouped .101
Then five more .413 all vertical
31.3 gave me .450 horizontal
31.6 .367 vertical
Loaded up 31.9 and got .139
I had loaded five more at 31.9 with .005 more jam just in case the vertical was still present. They went horizontal. No measurements as I did'nt collect the target.
Switched to a new lot of Ultras and started at 31.9. More horizontal. Dropped to 31.8 and backed off my jam .003 and four out of five grouped a very small zero with one just to the left. I'll take the blame for that flyer for now anyways.
Seems tuneable but that big accuracy node is definately gone. I'm gonna shoot an Audette and start over. Hopefully there'll be a node lower.
If this stuff gets all fussy like H-322 did for me I'll jump back to X-Terminator.
Just a green preloader in search of the Holy Grail
As I recall my results were similar to yours this winter.
I found a huge node between 31.3- 31.9 that looked very promising in cold weather. Sweet spot seemed to be 3440fps.
Just pulled the ppc out now that the weather hit 70. Once again my results mimick yours somewhat, but worse.
I dropped a little lower and started at 31.0.First four foulers at 31.0 grouped .101
Then five more .413 all vertical
31.3 gave me .450 horizontal
31.6 .367 vertical
Loaded up 31.9 and got .139
I had loaded five more at 31.9 with .005 more jam just in case the vertical was still present. They went horizontal. No measurements as I did'nt collect the target.
Switched to a new lot of Ultras and started at 31.9. More horizontal. Dropped to 31.8 and backed off my jam .003 and four out of five grouped a very small zero with one just to the left. I'll take the blame for that flyer for now anyways.
Seems tuneable but that big accuracy node is definately gone. I'm gonna shoot an Audette and start over. Hopefully there'll be a node lower.
If this stuff gets all fussy like H-322 did for me I'll jump back to X-Terminator.
Just a green preloader in search of the Holy Grail
D
Donald
Guest
jo191145
What was your load range with X-Term. I shot a group the other day with it. I think my load was about 29.5 or thereabouts. Was testing the XBR stuff and just grabbed 5 rounds for X-Term. Let the 5th get out but 4 went fairly small. Looks like it might be on the hot side. But bears testing.
Donald
What was your load range with X-Term. I shot a group the other day with it. I think my load was about 29.5 or thereabouts. Was testing the XBR stuff and just grabbed 5 rounds for X-Term. Let the 5th get out but 4 went fairly small. Looks like it might be on the hot side. But bears testing.
Donald
J
jo191145
Guest
Donald
Looked at my notes. My original Audette with X-Term went as high as 30.5 in .3gn increments using HBN coated 68 Ultras.
29.8gns was the winner for me with necksized brass. Dropped to 29.6 once I started FL sizing with a standard Redding body die.
Next barrel will have fitted dies. This one is just to old to bother going that route. Still shoots pretty good though when I get things just right.
Obviously I would reccomend you do your own workup for your gun. You know the drill
edit
Looked a little harder and found I reshot an Audette with FL brass. Went as high as 31.7. Notes indicate a node centered on 30.7 but seeing as I'm not shooting it I'd quess it did'nt pan out to well.
If I switch back I'll start with an Audette ladder again. Nothing like fresh data and it only takes a few minutes.
Looked at my notes. My original Audette with X-Term went as high as 30.5 in .3gn increments using HBN coated 68 Ultras.
29.8gns was the winner for me with necksized brass. Dropped to 29.6 once I started FL sizing with a standard Redding body die.
Next barrel will have fitted dies. This one is just to old to bother going that route. Still shoots pretty good though when I get things just right.
Obviously I would reccomend you do your own workup for your gun. You know the drill
edit
Looked a little harder and found I reshot an Audette with FL brass. Went as high as 31.7. Notes indicate a node centered on 30.7 but seeing as I'm not shooting it I'd quess it did'nt pan out to well.
If I switch back I'll start with an Audette ladder again. Nothing like fresh data and it only takes a few minutes.
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J
jo191145
Guest
http://kingfisher.0catch.com/guns/laddertest.explanation.html
shinny, try that link. Incremental load develpment.
As I said its not the end all of load development but a good place to start.
shinny, try that link. Incremental load develpment.
As I said its not the end all of load development but a good place to start.
M
mks
Guest
Here are some ladder test results for my 30BR. The graphs are of the elevation of the bullet holes on the target, measured from the lowest hole for each string. The "ladder" looks more like stair steps when it works out well. String 24 didn't show the steps very well, but string 25 did. Note there are two nodes where increasing powder charge and muzzle velocity result in about the same elevation, one from 33.6 - 34.0 gr and 2960 - 3010 fps, and another from 34.4 - 34.8 gr and 3020 - 3040 fps.